… except layering…
… and new AV…
… and cross-realm BGs…
… and no walljumping…
… and unarmoured mounts…
… and one-click reporting…
… and the myraid of problems with using the current client to replicate Vanilla WoW mechanics…
Seriously, I agree with most of the arguments against making changes to the game. But people who continue to discredit threads by arrogantly spamming “no changes” and “go back to retail” ignore the fact that Blizzard has already demonstrated its willingness to diverge from Vanilla.
As such, any thread which suggests changing Classic WoW deserves a least some merit in recognition of the fact that it is not outside the realm of possibility.
So please: be polite and courteous, even if you disagree with people. Don’t be that jerk who shouts down legitimate debates with meaningless buzzwords.
I’ve had many conversations with the nochanges crowd. It’s almost always either pessimism or some need to keep the game as a sort of museum piece. I get them on both accounts, but I really want a world in which classic continues to grow and excite us with things within this very format of classic that we never expected or knew how great it could be.
Most of my instances of dealing with the nochanges crowd, unfortunately, is either them outright refusing to have a conversation in favor of just spamming their hashtag or adding nothing to the conversation except just trying to insult or discredit anyone who tries to change anything.
I’ve been guilty of asking a few of them why they even still post on the forum. If the only thing you contribute is saying no changes, then anyone who’s been on the forum more than a day has already seen it and know their stance. No idea why they keep posting. We’ve seen it and many people will post their ideas anyways. It’s called passion.
I get what you’re going for here, but these aren’t changes.
Cross-realm BGs were in 1.12, and we’re getting 1.12 AV.
Also since it’ll come up in this thread one way or another, I’ll make the obligatory: The game not being a perfect copy isn’t a great argument that it should be changed further.
It’s an argument that they need to be more on top of fixing those myriad of problems.
have you ever considered that people spam this dogma, knowing full well that layering alone is enough to invalidate it, to keep blizzard from changing even more in this game? Without trying to insult anyone on the team individually everything they touch turns to crap somehow.
Even the ideas they brought to classic are nothing but failures. Layering is bad, right click report is bad, the legion client reverseengineering is bad.
Classic literally lives from the idea/game/testclient created about 15 years ago and literally every little thing the new team added (as small as it is) devalues the final product somehow. Its like they are cursed or smth
I agree that those were some pretty strawman-esque arguments, and I actually agree with you. But I think you got my point: there is enough there to at least merit debate.
Very much this. This is really my core issue with it all. I can guarantee you there are changes or additions that everyone would be okay with if we just engaged in conversation. Most of the time you don’t get that, though. You just get #nochanges.
Currently just throwing out your hashtag means nothing. explain why you don’t want it. If you reason is no I don’t like change, then we’ve all heard it before. For example that big thread on LFD. imo ABSOLUTELY NOT. I would hate them to add that, but please TELL them that instead of #nochanges, because that means nothing.
If you ask why they either repeat it or give you some insulting variation of “You’re dumb if I have to explain why this is bad to you!”.
I am actually in favor of classic progression, but the reason I am a no changes person is because I know it will be ruined, whether it be by players asking for dumb things, Blizzard’s current dev team, or a mix of the two.
This is the pessimism I was talking about, and you know what, yes, I get it.
I actually on some level do agree with you. You have been given no reason to be optimistic about this as an option, knowing the company we do is running this thing. It’s completely fair, and I am the crazy one for being an optimist. I just like to dream, you know?
I’ve been here since they opened the forums shortly after announcing it.
There is nothing you can post that somebody wont try to argue damages the game in some way, shape, or form. Guild Banks? Transmog? Somebody will argue it ruins the game.
While it’s stupid to simply post the hashtag, the reason why some people do is because we’ve seen it all several times before.
The requests for change are often so similar to what’s been requested 2039489023 times in the past it’s like there’s a script somewhere everybody is reading off of.
My personal favourite is the “buff hybrid DPS by 70-80% that totally wont cause a crap ton of balance issues”.
Well, if we wanted to truly make it work, we’d need some kind of system in which we either have like 100 hand-picked well known people within the community overseeing this, or some kind of non-abusable voting system.
The issue is this has problems too. There’s no true way going forward to know if changing anything would go our way.
Like, you put an NPC in each of the main cities that people can vote at, and in order to vote at them you need to have at least 1 level 60 with so much playtime, and there would be punishments for people cheating the system.
I’m confident this would go well at least based on in-game and forum sentiments. For example that thread looking for LFD is vast majority negative responses, which is good.
Edit: @Septicflesh Alright fine, take your upvote for being the first to do it.
Dude there is literally the epitome of evidence (BFA) that if you allow blizzard to change a good thing it will result in something bad. You people come here crying about the “#nochanges” crowd because they posted this for a month now forgetting that blizz ruined one of the best games out there in the span of 10 years.
I mean how much more evidence do you need until you star to learn?
As I’ve said time and time again on these forums: the point of classic is to give people the chance to see it as it was 15 years ago and for the most part it’s spot on; theres no flying, no lfd, Talent trees and of course there is the endless poverty brought about by having to pay gobs of money for your abilities.
And that’s good. People wanted this and now they have it.
Classic + on the other hand, would only ensure that the game mutates into something it wasn’t and lead players to having warped perspective on what the game was like prior to the expansions.
So no. No changes to the system beyond releasing the content that existed prior to TBC’s release in january 2007.
Blizzard will do what will make them money. It’s obvious that the playerbases are different. This is another common argument from you nochangers. “Any change will somehow lead us to BFA!”. We’re not talking about mechanical changes or convenience changes. THOSE are what lead to BFA.
The playerbase of classic is much more hardcore. If they don’t make changes that cater to that playerbase they will hemorrhage players EXTREMELY quickly.
Just because blizzard has made changes to classic, doesn’t mean that I want allow them to make further changes. Thus I can write #NoChanges as a rallying cry and get others to realize we are on the same side and make our voices heard.
This game managed to keep a solid core of players who have been playing since the original launch for more than 10 years. So if players managed to do that and kept being entertained ( I assume that since they kept playing it for that long, hence th big private server community) is the game really not offering enough if others drop it or is it the fault of the players who somehow can not keep the attention span that classic (vanilla) demands?
The game provides enough things to engage you, what it does not do ofc is cater it to you like some slave that is only there to entertain you. You have to search the corners of the world if you get bored by what is offered at the surface. And if you want that kind of entertainment, over time you get some abomination of wow that is currently titled BFA and I bet if you give current blizz a shot at “classic+” you will get the exact same perversion of a homogenized game