It’s okay, bro. I know it must suck to have to pick up those big, heavy goalposts and move them so often. I understand why you are mad.
I’m not the one trying to change Classic.
I enjoy it as it is.
People like you are mad no one plays retail anymore, and you infested the forum with multiple demands for easy mode.
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You mean Cata? That was the last expansion I played WoW for longer than a month in. You guys are too funny. I know, change sucks. Like, where do people get off on wanting changes to anything? Forsaken should be perma fear immune and shackleable. #nochangestobeta
/whooosh
I was talking about loot distribution in PUGs not whether or not the content can be cleared in a PUG. You missed the entire point of my post completely 
How bout all the people that want to change classic and also make classic+ go and change retail to these things. Leave the classic museum experience alone. Change retail into the change you want, you are retail fans anyway, so do it there.
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ROFL you think WE are the minority…that’s hilarious 
How many signatures were on that petition for vanilla legacy servers again???
280k ish or so I believe?? You are woefully incorrect there…The people who want to change Classic are NOT the same people who wanted Blizzard to bring the vanilla game back to begin with because changes to the game completely contradicts EVERYTHING we had fought for in order to make Classic a reality to begin with. People who want it to change are people who DIDN’T want it because “OMG it would split the player base away from retail” Something these same people have been saying since the Wall of No threads. And now that it’s here all these people suddenly want changes to the game as an effort to sabotage/destroy it to force everyone back to playing retail or make them quit altogether.
The people who are looking to add changes and QoL features to Classic have a clear agenda to undermine Classic completely and are no different than a certain political party who also has an agenda to disarm the American populace
classic wow isnt vanilla wow lot by a long shot.
There are already so many fundamental changes that they might as well all get what they want.
They? You mean YOU…what came with the Legion client they used in order for Classic to be able to interact with the battle.net client is NOT an excuse to add MORE changes to make the game more like retail. There is literally nothing that can justify it whatsoever, no matter how badly you or anyone else wants their personal changes
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If this were actually true, then Blizzard would not suddenly have the legal leverage necessary to shut down the private vanilla servers. Classic was created to do that very thing in addition to giving that version of the game back to the hundreds of thousands of people who fought for it. It was a win-win for them.
In order to have that leverage, Blizzard must provide the content that is/was considered Abandonware themselves. Which leads me to believe that there will be an uptick in TBC/WoTLK private servers once all the vanilla ones have been shut down. This will of course force Blizzard’s hand in putting those out eventually as well
That was a clear exploit in the game that allowed people to farm bosses over and over and get around the instance reset cap per hour and even weekly raid lockouts so yeah of course they fixed it. That would have utterly ruined server economies and had a profound impact on the game.
Changes like that and bug fixes are NOT the same as changes like you people are asking for in terms of a barbershop or any other QoL feature. You are comparing apples to oranges there. Moving of the goal posts isn’t needed
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Blizzard always had the ability to send a cease and desist. Abandonware has never been a valid concept in the US legal system… Oh, and even if it were (it’s not), many of the original assets are still used in BFA… /headdesk
C & D alone wasn’t cutting it. There were private servers that were still operational even after a C & D due to the loophole that Abandonware provides because Blizzard was losing several court cases on it. Classic was necessary in order to close that loophole
Care to provide a link to information on said court cases?
First of all, #nochanges. Wow, I feel so included now!
Secondly, you’re thinking of a hotfix that happened weeks ago. This hotfix was recent.
If you are in the #nochanges camp, then why are you bothering to point out things like hotfixes to exploits and/or bug fixes unless you consider those to be justification for more changes??
If that isn’t the case then why bring them up at all other than to voice your opinion that Blizzard making such changes contradicts the #nochanges philosophy? If this is what you meant, then I completely misunderstood and apologize for misjudging you. I however don’t agree with that assessment since #nochanges applies to bug fixes also to a certain degree.
If a particular bug existed in vanilla that wasn’t game breaking and didn’t allow people to circumvent mechanics or give players a way to massively impact gameplay or the server economy it should be left in. Likewise any bugs/exploits that are present due to the Legion client Classic runs on should be removed as they didn’t exist in vanilla. I don’t see how this negates or contradicts with #nochanges at all.
As to the link you requested…after sifting through several pages of court case decisions that were made public, it appears as though only the cases that Blizzard had won or was awarded money in a lawsuit were present. This doesn’t mean however that they have won 100% of every single injunction or lawsuit they’ve ever filed.
Let’s say for the moment that you are correct and it isn’t about Abandonware. That still leaves Trademark Law and IP Law. They have to protect all forms of their IP or risk losing it through inaction such as what happened with 3M and their trademarked Post It Notes. The methods they’ve been using to protect their IP thus far prior to Classic being launched were perhaps not adequate to suit their needs.
The release of Classic serves to solidify their ownership of the IP since it’s presence makes it a tangible entity rather than just being relegated to legacy content. Keep in mind there are private servers that operate outside the US as well, so the legal statutes and regulations are different. So it’s altogether possible that Abandonware comes into play in those cases if not cases in the US
Sorry, that #nochanges was supposed to be tongue in cheek. While it would be fun to troll and keep pretending that I was in that camp, that would be pretty d1ck. I just find the saying kind of ridiculous. While I respect the right to the view that Classic should stay true to Vanilla (though don’t entirely agree), people seem to spam that phrase like it precludes them from having to address why specific changes shouldn’t be implemented. I’m also pretty irritated at what was, imo, a sh1tty management call to port everything to a Legion client, rather than add a functional BNET API for the Vanilla client. We wouldn’t have the ludicrous number of game breaking bugs due to nonsense like emulated spell batching. The whole #nochanges thing feels a little like people are ignoring the real elephant in the room.
While I’m sure Classic has the bonus of some form added protection of their IP, imo it’s pretty unnecessary. In sifting around the forums earlier, I found a post that summed up my thoughts better than I could put into words:
"Vanilla WoW is not abandonware.
The software licenses under which it was released are still valid and enforceable.
The copyrights on the content are still valid and enforceable.
It is not an “orphaned work”.
The company controlling those rights is still VERY active, and continuing to develop the IP of which Vanilla is but a part of. Vanilla is the Mickey, then we got Mini, Goofy, Donald, and Pluto.
It can be argued that BfA is the “same game” as Vanilla. Similarly, the modern WoW (which is everything sans BfA) is the “same game” as Vanilla, just greatly expanded. Regardless of what hardware it supports. Regardless of how some class works or any other meaningless mechanic. Disneyland is still Disneyland, even if they got rid of the Submarine ride.
Simply, just because a company updates their software doesn’t mean they lose their rights to the older copies. They don’t. Microsoft still has all the rights to Microsoft Word 1.0, for example. And Windows 1.x. And all editions of MS-DOS.
The C&D letters to the assorted private servers over time shows that Blizzard is still enforcing their rights, even if they haven’t done it to all of them. They don’t need to do it to all of them to show their willingness and ability to enforce their IP.
That means that, no, there’s no precedent here that BC, Wrath, Cata, MoP, etc. etc. are going to get a similar treatment to Vanilla.
Vanilla is coming out as a service from Blizzard to their customer and fanbase because they feel it’s worth their time and resources to bother and port it.
They’re doing it because the want to, not because they have to."
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Thank you for being honest…you are a better person than I initially gave you credit for. Even if I don’t share your views on adding changes to the game, I respect you as an individual who shares the same passion for the game as I do. Nobody likes to be lied to and have people play mind games with them, and the number of people who do that on a daily basis here in the forums is astounding…so it’s nice to see someone who ISN’T a major @sshat.
Think you meant Minnie but I get your point 
I agree their solution to getting Classic to work with Battlenet wasn’t a very good one. Perhaps they initially tried it that way but there was some major hurdles to overcome with such outdated code that it was more trouble than it was worth…we’ll never really know for sure unfortunately
LOL @ people using the hotfix to justify being able to add stuff to classic.
You do know that hotfix was needed to fix something that was NOT a classic mechanic? (aka layering)
This is flawed logic; however, please understand that this ship has already sailed. Classic is not vanilla, there have been changes where it’s been necessary for the good of the game. This doesn’t automatically mean that changes must come, but it also doesn’t automatically mean there can’t be anymore.
I suspect what Ion means by “pandora’s box” is that they need to be quite careful about what, if any changes need to be made. I highly doubt he would intend that as a blanket, black and white statement, especially when changes have been implemented.
The thing is, changes are ok! As crazy as it might be, some changes are good for the overall health of the game and the player base. It also doesn’t mean we must have changes.
Really, at the end of the day, the discussion about changes are just that, a discussion. It’s ok to have them. I realize some folks come to the forums to crap all over everybody else’s creativity, but it doesn’t 'have to be that way 