Just because some changes do exist to work on a modern client does not mean we need more changes. Thanks for proving the slippery slope though.
Then you understand why i dont want changes. Ive seen where that road leads. And unlike some changes that are fairly innocuous, dual spec actually impacts the game. I bring up compromise to show that you have no grounds to compromise on. A compromise means everyone gets something they want. What can pro changers offer no changers that we dont already have?
You already proved the slippery slope is real, so yeah. I dont want either, because after we give you barbershop and dual spec, whats next?
Scroll up about 50 posts and read down to where I dismantle why the Slippery Slope argument is entirely fallacious here. Nothing “proves” a slippery slope unless you can link every change, from Vanilla-> A definite point at which quality of life changes are too much, and define how there is a causal relationship between each and every one. At that point, it ceases to be a slippery slope and becomes a concrete argument. Until then, it’s just a form of fear mongering. That’s why most of us have stopped even engaging the #nochanges crowd. It’s an entitled argument that generally devolves quickly to relying on one of the most well examined fallacious arguments in history and it’s pretty facepalm inducing to get it multiple times, in the same thread, from different individuals.
The slippery slope does not state that any change leads to retail. It says a change has negative side effects.
The first negative side effect. Is if you guys are using existing changes like layering and being built on the legion engine to ask for dual spec and barbershops, what will people argue to add when they have those tools?
The second is that dual spec negatively impacts the economy.
The third is that both negatively impact the authentic vanilla wow experience.
So i ask again. You brought up im unwilling to compromise. Lets pretend i am for a bit.
What can you actually offer no changers in this compromise?
I’m not using the mess that is Classic’s client to justify any changes. I’m using it to defeat the argument that Blizzard is really trying to replicate Vanilla. They could’ve built Classic on a modified Vanilla client…but they didn’t. Why? Because they really don’t care if Classic is an exact clone of Vanilla.
As far as respecs go, I would argue that freeing up gold for healers/tanks to respec and PvP would liven the community. It’s a massive gold sink, but all it does is require people to do grindy, monotonous solo farms like the solo priest mara run for hours. I highly doubt it has noticeable impacts on the economy, beyond requiring respec dependent classes to avoid doing content that they actually enjoy. I see your concern, and it’s reasonable, but I just don’t think it would be damaging to the economy in a greater sense.
You really enjoy spending 100g a week to play the game? I get it, nostalgia and all, but that’s not fun for anyone. There’s no sense of accomplishment or progression. Just loss of time and effort into a hole in the ground.
If you take the very most extreme, conservative point on an issue, state that you don’t want to move your position even an inch, and then ask what can be offered to you, you’re being selfish and entitled. Compromise involves meeting in the middle. There are likely people playing that would like a ton of changes, but would be willing to set aside those desires to agree to a few important QoL changes that benefit the majority of players. There’s an extremely vocal group of #nochange players here on the forums, but my experience in game has been that most players would be happy with a few QoL changes. I keep harping on the dual spec issues because it’s one I feel many players would be okay with. Whenever I’ve mentioned respeccing to my guild, I’ve been met with the sentiment that people wish for dual spec.
You are not. Others are. Ive seen people use colorblind mode to argue more changes. Authentic does not mean 100% clone.
Would it negatively impact it right away? No. In the long term? Absolutely it will.
Doesnt bother me at all. Respeccing serves a couple of purposes. It helps to maintain identity and slows down inflation.
What middle is there? You get the changes you want and we get screwed. Yeah it wouldnt be full on LFD, transmog, flying, etc. But we were already promised that, so what middle is there? The middle where YOU get what you want and we get an empty promise that no other changes will happen? Blizzard already gives us that as is. You have NOTHING TO OFFER US TO MAKE US WANT TO COME TO THE MIDDLE. Us coming to the middle does not give us anything at all. Nothing but losing ground. Meanwhile you all get exactly what you want, and the goal posts move and the next group wants us to meet them halfway
Starts at 29:18. Classic was made to be a vanilla legacy server that players can play today without it being on illegal servers. That is the whole reason for Classic and it was pushed by the vanilla private server community which was mainly Nostalrious which the WoW dev team did invite them and met at Blizzard.
I have no idea why people are still oblivious to this as it has been nothing new for years. You can not say Classic is not vanilla because it was the whole reason it came to be.
The player base decides where the middle is. Some people have expressed wanting Classic+ or even expedited patching to TBC. I understand that your position is one without changes, but it’s not the only position, nor necessarily the most commonly held one. I personally don’t care that much either way. I just see the #nochange crowd posting all of these threads and see that attitude as pretty delusional and also pretty selfish. You aren’t ever going to get an immaculate Vanilla experience from Classic, so shouldn’t your slogan be #minimalchanges? If your position is that it’s all or nothing- that you aren’t being given anything, so you are going to tell everyone who doesn’t feel the same as you to kick rocks- why should people that hold a differing position care the slightest about your desires? Your concept of compromise seems to be “I get exactly what I want and you get to deal with it.”
You know what an extremely common trend among those wanting classic + and tbc is? They want them on separate servers so it doesnt impact the authentic vanilla people want. Im fine with that.
Selfish? Selfish is wanting to change what is supposed to be unchanging. No changers just want what was promised.
You’re never going to get an unchanged Vanilla. Face it. You’re on a 1.13(? this patch never existed) TBC pre-patch, with wackily time-gated content, screwed up mob mechanics, screwed up batching, and so many non-Vanilla mechanics that the list is a mile long. I’m not sure why some intentional, player oriented changes are so incredibly disruptive to your experience that you feel the need to flip anyone who doesn’t hold your view the metaphorical bird.
1.13 is just what they are calling it. Its just patch 1.12. And here you are again proving the slippery slope. You already have some changes why not more? No thanks.
The goal is to get a vanilla experience in 2019 as close to vanilla as possible. They are not making Classic something its not. They have said time and time again they are making the game as it was in 2006 even with Ion Hazzikostas saying it at Blizzcon 2018 people still want to believe otherwise. Some people need to also face it that Blizzard will not deviate to making an authentic Vanilla WoW 2006 experience. That is never changing.
You already have some changes, so #nochanges is never going to happen. That’s my argument. Your shouting this slogan that’s literally never going to happen as some justification that no QOL changes can occur. If I were you, I’d stop saying “proves the slippery slope”, because it just shouts “I’m arguing a fallacy” to anyone who has read about how a slippery slope argument is highly prone to fallacy.
Yeah, I’m sure the flight master leash range has nothing to do with Blizzard trying to make their game more carebear friendly… I get the feeling that most #nochangers I interact with have never even bothered to read the bug report forum and see how ridiculous #nochange looks to anyone who has.