Personally I generally look forward to the big villains of the story being dealt with. Really excited to see what they have in store for future N’Zoth raid (or rather hoping it’s not a disappointment).
I get it that most people felt that Sylvanas was a villain that needed dealing with too.
The issue is that they’re going about it the same exact way they went about Garrosh.
At least we can say that Legion was an exciting story that wasn’t a repeat of Burning Crusade. If you were still bored because demons… Oh well. That’s you.
And you felt good about killing them as a Night Elf player? Is it because you’re sympathetic to Malfurion’s point of view (I’m assuming you like Malfurion?) or because they’re baddies and had to die for the greater good?
Partially it had to do with them just being awesome and it was fun fighting against them because they were so cool.
But narratively not just for the greater good, but because they were out of their damned minds and wanted everyone to suffer as much as they had. That’s worth stopping.
Gee, I don’t know, Amadis. Maybe for the same reason you don’t take a hard pass on playing a victim? Because neither of us has any choice in the matter?
But here’s the difference: you seem to have no empathy for anyone’s plight but your own. Until you can propose a solution that doesn’t suck for half the player base, I’m not interested.
Don’t give me that, Carmageddon. Both Pellex and Skarm up above passed on playing a stooge. You did not. And it sounds like you would not pass on my idea if Blizzard implemented it, either, despite your hard pass declaration (also, obviously I don’t work for Blizzard, so that’s a moot point any way).
I’ve never seen BfA as playing the victim. The Night Elves did everything they could to defend their lands and their people, and continued to do so even after the burning of Teldrassil. I am proud of the Night Elves. If Blizzard doesn’t want to continue their story right now that’s a different issue.
Please.
And your own empathy?
Incidentally, this is also an example of your making calls for the following:
You bring this up a number of times. But (and, fairly, I might have missed you posting it somewhere), I don’t think you’ve ever actually tried to make any such suggestion yourself. So you can “hard pass” on my idea, but then I’d like to see you propose one better if you’re going to keep calling for one.
You realize I am as pro Alliance as possible? Hell, I love seeing Alliance win, especially against the Horde. If anything, I think the gnomes/gilneas should get wins first because they happen to have been waiting so long.
But I also happen to know Blizzard style, usually plot advancements happen very glacially. I expect it will win happen every expansion or so.
I probably wouldn’t–assuming it wasn’t mandatory content to progress, which I would not put past Blizzard–but that’s because I would view it as a punishment. Your original statement was that you didn’t see it as one.
It would feel good if we were doing it out of altruism, to help those in need. But your version of this quest explicitly frames it as “atonement.” Which means the PC would basically be admitting “Yes, I was bad, but now I want to be better.” I’m sure that feels good in a certain way if you truly believe that you are guilty of wrongdoing, but that’s the big problem for Horde players: we, the humans behind our keyboards, have done nothing wrong except to choose the red team at character creation. And the only wrong our characters (whom we identify with to a certain extent) have done was forced upon us without our consent. So then being asked to “admit” that we/our characters did wrong and then perform a task to make up for that wrong would not feel good.
(ETA: I see you later said it wouldn’t be atonement for the Horde PC; I’m just responding to your original framing of the statement.)
The traitor night elves- I’m assuming that you’re refering to the Druids of the Flame, like you mentioned in several other posts- are no longer members of the Alliance, they’re members of the Twilight Hammer. The evil Horde members are still (usually, guys Varimathas from Seige of Undercity was clearly still Legion biding his time) loyal members of the Horde, just @$$holish ones.
Let’s invert the ‘Rescue Baine Scenerio’. Anduin demands that the nelves make peace with the Horde, and actually gives the Horde… something, something valuable that the Alliance has that the Horde wants as a gesture of good faith on his part. In response, Tyrande captures him and holds him prisoner. After all, the nelves don’t want peace with the Horde, they want to destroy the Horde. The quests demand you have to break him out, with the aid of Horde characters. While doing so, you have to kill nelfs who try to stop you. When they die, they say things like ‘No, Teldrassil must be avenged!..’, ‘Elune protect me!’ ‘The Kaldorei will stay strong!’.
Ok, for sure, druids of the blame went off the deep end and needed to be put down. But leyara actually had valid points regarding the horde and Malfurion
Sure, saving the world always comes first- but Malfurion basically was a futurama neutrality meme. Hell, Sylvanas (and the horde) were more afraid of Varian than Malfurion.
Fast forwards a few years, Malf himself almost died, his race is pushed to the brink of extinction and his wife had to undergo a ritual that literally only one person in history ever survived.
The horde respects strength. Maybe if he had sent a few tornadoes the horde’s way whenever they got too bold, then maybe the kaldorei might still have a tangible future to speak of. Literally all that was needed was a “hey guys, look, i dont wanna go to war with you, i’ve got bigger things to worry about- but im not gonna let you **** on my backyard either”
And when the Alliance gets any sort of win you give Blizzard a pass on any other situation they haven’t addressed. Which is what I do not find agreeable.
Knowing their glacial pace and finding it acceptable are two different things.
I do not find their pace acceptable.
I carefully curate what quests and reps my alts play through. Having done everything on my main, my alts narratively shouldn’t exist. In whatever way the game would try to treat my alts as if they’ve done content they haven’t I would just ignore it.
Care to respond to that post instead then?
They were still Night Elves who had cared about other Night Elves and were acting out because of the loss of those Night Elves.
Saurfang is leading a rebellion (another revolution, it would seem). The Evil Horde would not consider the rebels loyal, and the rebels would not consider the Evil Horde to be their Horde (as Saurfang said, “What I want is my Horde back”). I see no issue fighting the Evil Horde if you no longer want it to be in control. That is as heroic as fighting off the Twilight’s Hammer.
How many thinly-veiled “This would make the Alliance more interesting” threads have come up? Because this is exactly how that would play out.
Luckily, if the 8.2.5 really is the end of the faction war, this will not be the case for anyone.
Come on. This is Malfurion. He’ll extend the olive branch to the Horde once Sylvanas is taken care of. If your concept is the Horde respects strength, Malfurion believes that love and compassion will win the day after you kill the bad guys.
Well, if it works for you, then at least someone is less miserable about this expansion than I am.
I look at characters the same way I do with save files on any other game. The accomplishments and effects on one have nothing to do with the other, and I think it’s silly to believe one set of actions is non-canon because it’s already been done on another save.
I think it’s silly to not acknowledge your character as your own when Blizzard acknowledges that view point to the extent of even adding role playing realms for the express purpose of supporting that.
To be honest, I’m no longer sure what you’re picturing. How do you get a Horde PC “having to quest with the Night Elves for atonement” but the only atonement is for Saurfang? Could you sketch out what that might look like in a little more detail?
Tyrande has Saurfang at bow point again, Saurfang is not moving and accepting being judged by the embodiment of Elune again, while Sylvanas is smirking in the distance behind him pleased that her enemies are pitted against each other. Only for Tyrande to shoot her arrow and it goes over Saurfang’s shoulder and kills Sylvanas’ remaining Val’kyr (lets say after Saurfang has already killed the other one). Sylvanas screams and retreats, and Tyrande says something to Saurfang like “You will live, and atone for what you have done until your dying breath. Elune make it so you will not find that reprieve for years to come.”
For the Horde player:
They’re just killing Sylvanas goons and turning in drops and completing world quests the similar as the Alliance did for Vol’jin back in 5.3. There’s not really much there different than doing world quests in Nazjatar or doing stuff for Mechagon. Horde players don’t have to feel bad doing it.
I think the feeling bad about it comes from that the mooks we’re killing are still Horde in name. Before BFA, those soldiers were our comrades in arms, potentially serving our interests and faction since as far back as Vanilla. Which is dumb because again, we already did this and disliked it the first time. How many familiar NPC’s did I personally put down in SoO last time? It feels like garbage. How is a Forsaken player supposed to feel as they abandon the Dark lady and start mowing down their own people? I ain’t even one of them and it still felt dirty last time I was forced to do it.
So in your scenario… I’d still feel bad. It would still be atonement for something I had no say in. A punishment I’d been dreading since the Sylvanas Warbringer dropped.
I just realized, I’m not truly apathetic yet. I still have one thing left: the dread.