If this is their mentality than why is merc mode lite even a thing?
1 Like
It’s also reasonable to deduce that a lot of design decisions in early WoW were very poorly thought out. Respeccing even being a thing shows that blizzard knew specs weren’t supposed to be some super permanent thing.
Because talents does not equal faction population imbalance, and even deeper, faction pvp population imbalance. It’s easy to get on your Troll alt and start bm’ing Horde for having a higher population, but the core reason as to why Horde queues are long is directly influenced by the fact that Alliance queues are short, and vice versa.
Sure Horde has more people in queue and that’s partly why Horde queues are long, but Alliance also doesn’t have enough people in queue. The overall faction imbalance isn’t as broken as people make it seem, so it ends up going to the pvp population which is very imbalanced. If Alliance pvp’d more, Horde queues wouldn’t be as long and Alliance queues would be longer.
This weekend is a prime example, tons of Alliance have jumped on the AV bandwagon so now Horde is chilling with 3 minute queues, because the Alliance is, stay with me here, actually pvping.
So yeah man let’s compare talents and dual spec to player made problems in pvp.
You typed out a whole lot just to say nothing.
If the mentality is that player choices matter than what faction you pick, what class you roll matters, so there’s zero good reason to deny dual spec when merc mode lite is a thing.
Do queues suck? Sure but it’s part and parcel and pvp is a small fraction of this game. You cannot say otherwise because it wouldn’t be true.
Not being able to farm effectively because you’re a healer, tank or a certain spec of DPS impacts far more people than queue times for a pvp mini game do. You can argue that all it takes is a 100g a week, well all you have to do for queues is wait an hour. Doesn’t sound fun does it?
Putting in dual spec is no different than merc mode lite, it’s a QoL improvement to people who cannot otherwise access parts of the game. The “choices matter” argument is bunk.
You think your precious “nochanges” is still a thing?
Are you living under a rock?
It’s gone, there’s boosting paid and on in game which is very retail like.
Now if we’re acting stupid and ignoring the truth for “argument sake” look elsewhere.
People haven’t been playing the game as intended since Classic launched.
I’m blown away by how people is full of copium thinking this version isnt retail like still…
Last time I will name the two simple but extremely important features that basically makes this a retail like server:
- Paid boost to 58 to skip LITERALLY 80% of the grind.
- Paid mount for free that can be usable on all future characters.
Whenever they introduce the wow token consider this game 101% retail like. Everything will be around the token… carries for gold for tokens, any sort of service will be based on the token.
As much the boost did impact my experience in this version and I think it was very bad from the start the faction vs faction/alliance box garbage solution they implemented is another signal to realize that they will keep adding retail things.
Oh I get exactly what type of player you are.
You’re the type of player to diminish what other players do if it doesn’t align with what you view as the “correct” endgame, hence why you are so quick to bash HvH and AvA bgs, but really, really, want dual spec.
While you can go ahead and try to gaslight via
you wouldn’t be right.
While pvp has gotten less focus than raiding every tier (inb4 trash quote), to diminish it to “mini game” status like it’s the Darkmoon Faire or some seasonal event like Midsommer Fire Festival is inherently wrong. Pvp is the second most updated end game event in wow, from bgs, to arenas, to rated bgs, tournaments, servers dedicated to it, quest hubs and zones dedicated to it, even involving for a time pvp based raids where if the pvpers didn’t do their job, raiders couldn’t do theirs (ie Wintersgrasp and Tol barad), and more.
After over 15 years of players pvping, while we did revert to an early version of the game where most of the bgs, arenas, and zones for pvp that came later are not currently in the game, it does not change the player and their interests. Pvp has, and always will be, a legit end game focus, no matter what your purist raid mind spews out.
Now to take those players, and force them from the moment bgs came out in classic to hours upon hours of waiting in queues is absurd. It has only caused players to quit, or to farm in the open world, which then only causes the Alliance to be big mad and play the game less as well.
If we applied what pvpers had to do to raiding, then after the raid gets formed, you’ll need to wait outside the raid instance for an hour, every time. Why? Because not enough of the other faction is inside the raid. Don’t like it? Just go reroll to the other faction. Doesn’t sound fun does it?
It is more than a player QOL change, it is a legitimate health update for the game itself.
Dual spec, in it’s most generous form, is purely QOL. There are no parts of the game that are inaccessible due to the lack of dual spec. If you can’t farm because of your spec, I can guarantee there are more farms. From fishing, to gathering professions, production professions, mob grinding, tank and healing services, instance farming. I can guarantee that you can make money in this game, no matter what class or spec you are.
Lol that’s why people are playing the 15 year old version of the game rather than the current version. Clearly, the old devs knew what they were doing otherwise none of us would be playing this old game. Go play Shadowlands since the devs back then had no clue what they were doing.
3 Likes
PvP is a mini game, it’s not balance and it’s broken. Half the population doesn’t participate in PvP and even more are casual. There are far more raiders and dungeon crawlers than there are PvPers.
If you’re going to spout out that player choices matter well than they shouldn’t have introduced same faction PvP BGs which bypass the queue issue. There’s zero reason why Dual Spec shouldn’t be in the game, especially when it will improve a lot of the lives of people who play classes that cannot farm.
PvPers couldn’t access a part of the game they wanted due to queues, others cannot access parts of the game due to the restriction of no dual spec. You don’t get to same one group of people can have their access fixed and deny others based on fair weather #nochanges thinking.
Give up the ghost, dual spec is far more important to the health of the game than same faction BGs. Also might I add if pvp is your endgame well, BGs aren’t end game, Arena is and last I checked horde didn’t have queue issues with it.
It actually doesn’t.
It is a 100% positive change in every way
HOW DARE YOU SIR
I’ll only give you that it’s not balanced and it’s broken, but the exact same can be said for any form of pve. As a rogue, I provide nothing to the group outside of damage, and I have to work harder at that than a hunter or warlock does. Is that balanced? No, it isn’t. The game has, in every form, been unbalanced and broken. To argue that pvp is only a “mini game” due to this, will then also be applied to pve, as nothing in this game is balanced.
Ay where’s that source homie.
Ay where’s that source homie.
Yeah the pvp scene has been dying for over a year now for classic because Horde have spent more time in queues than in bgs.
You’ve said this twice now, when did I talk about player choice outside of saying that Alliance don’t pvp as much as Horde which is why Alliance has instant queues and Horde doesn’t.
Can’t farm what? You need two sets of talents to fish, collect herbs, or stand in a city and cut gems? Outside of Paladin or Mage, if your spec can’t instance farm, you weren’t going to anyways. Healers can’t kill mobs? That’s crazy, you can sell healing services.
So… What can’t they farm in their current spec?
We’ve lost players because they can’t access bgs in a reasonable amount of time, but who has quit because they can’t have two talent trees?
Bgs are to Arenas what instances are to raids. You wouldn’t invite a guy in questing greens to your raid, so why would you invite a guy in questing greens to the arena?
Also, unlike raids where you can pug missing members, you can’t pug arena partners. If your homie or homies are offline, it’s to the bgs with you since you literally can not queue, unless you want to disband your team and remake it with some random for the day which is actually absurd.
Edit: Changed pvp to pve in one of my sentences.
1 Like
So your way if viewing dual spec is ignore every harmful thing it does because you want it?
I’ll list ONE thing it harms, it takes away most players need to pay a respec cost and essentially removes the continued gold sink of respec costs for a one time cost which is far less effective at removing gold from the economy in the long run.
1 Like
Same for yourself, the damage “it does” is miniscule and straw-man to further a invalid point
Toodles!
And to your “claims” of a gold sink…it’s farmed for and sold regularly with ease. If you think Blizzard isn’t a part of gold selling for profit, then you’re an idiot in that regard.
Well, your opinion is yours, but the damage isn’t miniscule. Though your opinion is more accurate than the person saying it does 0 damage.
this is an mmorpg. Choices are supposed to matter in an rpg. Dual spec makes choices not matter because you can change your mind at the flip of a coin now.
That’s reason number two.
Do you want me to keep going? There is plenty more reasons to not add dual spec.
1 Like
And again, yours is yours
An MMORPG? Choices matter? LOL. Arena caries for $, buying gold for $, MMORPG eh?
Should I go on about the lack of systems in place to catch 1000s of gold incoming to mailboxes when bought?
Seriously, my biggest problem with dual specs isn’t it being in the game. It’s that it was one of the features of Wrath.
This isn’t the only feature from Wrath people request. If we start putting those in TBC, it is going to be one less thing to be excited about for Wrath.
If wouldn’t be upset though if for TBC they reduced the respec cost to 1 silver and provided a way for you to store builds. Or whatever. The key being just make it so it is less convenient that it is in Wrath, so there is still something to look forward to with specs in Wrath.
I’m not coming at you hostile, but I do want you to list the reason as to why it’s damaging. I probably won’t agree because I don’t see the bulk of talent choices as being meaningful when aiming at a specific role (Ie, im a rogue who pves and uses swords, so thus I am combat swords and any change I make to the talent build will be minor tweaks or I won’t be using the combat sword build at all and suffer greatly for it. The “meaningful” change would be going shadowstep build for pvp which isn’t really meaningful as now I am aiming for a different role altogether, you see?)
Just wanted to post a gentle reminder that you’re opinion isn’t held by the “happy content players” you don’t know anything about the communities opinion on this matter, and you’re wrong. Duel spec should have came out with the TBC launch. Go play retail.