I’m honestly bummed by this.
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I mean, I’d love to get a black quiraji resonating crystal. But realistically, given my amount of freetime and knowhow I cant get that in time. However, I can get my personal prestige and satisfaction with an ivory raptor. I mean seriously, I have agonized over if I want to memorize a questing route for an orc rogue just to get the mount AND have the race I want most. The existance of the mount would deepen my potential gameplay, not reduce it. I would invest more time, planning, and energy into the game if it was a possibility.
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Why not put them is as a separate faction purchasable mount choice long term then? It’s vanilla flavor cosmetics for people who want it.
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That would be a hard design decision by the developers. There are two major factors involved in the decision as far as I can tell: Prestige Value, and Gameplay shift. Putting it in the game changes gameplay for a small, motivated, portion of the playerbase. The length of time available for the mount to be purchased effects the value of the mounts prestige and thus the overall populations reaction to the mount.
The mounts value in retail wow is heavily influenced by its scarcity. The more rare, and good looking the mount is the cooler it is that a player has it. They are riding around on a story that says: Hey! This player is good at leveling and making gold! But it only means those things if the timeframe to get the mount is finite. Personally I’d want a phase 2 removal.
I don’t care for it to be special. I like the mount because the like the way it looks. I like the color better than all the others. I like the frame better than the armored versions.
If everyone else playing classic all ride the Palomino they can. It wont stop me from riding mine and liking it.
Plenty of people had a lot more time to get it back in vanilla than the one phase. I don’t see why they should put it in just to remove it quickly so some people can say they are special.
It’s classic.
Why not put it in because it was a major part of vanilla that was sought after because people preferred it instead of using it as a lame level rush visual boast.
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Sharding is worse obviously but this is idiotic and insulting too.
Im glad that you asked this dude. It really frames the opposing concern. But I would like to frame my response with a few points first.
One of the chief detractors from WoW in its overall lifespan has been the push towards inclusivity for the playerbase. More players need to be able to easily reach all the content goals in the game. This philosophy flies in the face of the realities of Classic WoW’s game design, and it’s greatest achievements. It’s why LFR exists, its why Transmog exists, its why tiered dungeon difficulties flourished. Because the idea exists that everyone has the right to experience everything a game has to offer.
The concepts that make Classic wow really great are its tendancy to make things difficult for individuals. Things are time consuming and hard, and that forces players together to overcome those challenges. You cant coast through a LFR, you cant transmog your armor to look better. So the prevailing culture of the game is to admire player achievement, which is worn as gear and mounts. Those are not just your badges of honor, but a story told of you as player and the friends you travel with.
The reason I spent all that text framing my statement is that I want to distinguish the characteristics that make Classic WoW appealing to the audience that pushed it back into mainstream existance. So, my statement is this: by making the mount available for the entirety of the classic WoW server’s duration you devalue not just the mount (a huge symbol of player skill, and knowledge) but also the goal and reward systems of a timeless classic game.
Making things scarce makes them valuable, and that concept is what make Classic a success for so many people. Hardship in pursuit of valuable goals brought people together
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The classic reward system was time=stuff if you had tons of time to play and made a few friends everything was within reach other than some things which had low rng. The amount of people that coasted through 40 man raids was huge. With perhaps the exception of nax and things that were removed it simply a matter to time invested and not much else.
A static game doesnt benefit from limited time things as there is no new things that ever come up for newer people to work on. On the static nature means scarcity is not really an issue as its just a matter of time.
Sure sure! I will respond to them directly.
This is a slippery slope argument. Anyone could farm a mount in vanilla it was not a difficult task. Only time consuming. Allowing unarmored mounts does not mean you will backslide and have all the things you hate about retail. It means you will have mounts that originally were released in vanilla.
That’s actually an opinion and not a rule. The opinion is that WoW was harder back then.
I actually don’t agree with that. Yes Vanilla was more difficult than the friendliness of Retail today but it was not because it was overwhelming difficult game.
It was an overwhelmingly tedious game.
You worked hard in a large amount of time to get your reward so it felt good. Time spent on something you enjoy is a fine thing to praise.
My opinion on the concepts of what make Classic great are the social aspects and journeys you share with the people you meet on the game. My friends list, My guild, My trade chat banter, my dungeon regulars tell my story. Not my gear or my mount. My story is not the same as someone who has tier but my story is just as justified as theirs.
I don’t care about being special if someone gazes upon my toon. If they want my story they can ask.
It is a very well framed response! I respect your opinion and am not going to try and change your mind on what you feel to be the best parts of the game. My opinion is just not the same. I state it how I see it and would prefer it.
These faction mounts were not any more difficult to get than the epic mounts set up for current classic. To get your first epic mount you had to pay the same amount for the mount and riding together just in reverse. They were never more valuable and only scarce because most people changed them over or were unable to get them from joining later in the games history. Their meaning in retail now only serves to say ‘I played in Vanilla’. It gives no achievement or thrill any more than a armored horse does in Classic. But it looks better and was in Vanilla.
So I feel it should be included in Classic. I keep reading that Classic is a ‘museum piece’ If that is the case why are these not included? It is the Vanilla staple ride. When you look at screenshots of Vanilla you see these unarmored mounts the majority of the time.
Also I really want a Palomino man.
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I both agree with you, and find an exception to your general Classic wow rule.
In general, most anything that can be accomplished solo can be accomplished with a large sum of time in Classic wow. However, there are a few items in the game that are relatively time gated within the history of Classic WoW. Those being: The Ahn’Qiraj war effort epic item rewards (kinda, I think you can technically still get these after the gong is rung, but most guilds wont help you do the 40 man raid quests), The Black Scarab Mount, and the Unarmored Epic mounts.
I might have a insurmountable perspective difference issue with you, so I wont press the issue, however I would like to present my case. Classic WoW benefits from things existing in the game that players cant get easily. Time gating the unarmored epic mounts to a portion of the release schedule accomplishes some things, and giving it a virtually unlimited timeframe to purchase does different things.
Time gating the mount increases its asthetic appeal by granting its ownership more challenge, and the shorter the window to buy it in so too does the increase difficulty hence more prestige. By time gating the mount, you do two things to the owners of the mounts. You shrink the overall amount of players that will get the mount before it becomes inaccesible. And you turn the item, the mount, into a sort of story that gets told (I am a knowledgeable player who is very good at making money, and leveling efficiently. Often this will impress a image of greater skill or cool factor.) Many, probably most people play MMOs to play with friends and get sick gear. This adds to that line of thought
Giving it a virtually unlimited timeframe of purchase does two things. It increases the amount of players that will receive the unarmored epic mounts. Also, it decreases the mounts perceived social value (anybody can get this mount with enough time, at this point it has effectively the same social/asthetic value as the armored mounts). People put in less effort because success seems inevitable, and motivation decreases.
If you think as I do, then having an exception to the Classic WoW rule (everything happens eventually if you grind long enough) adds another rich and fulfilling layer to a game that has historical precedent (the unarmored mounts retained an immense social and aesthetic value from rarity). Removing this layer, would diminish the game as a whole.
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Dude, I totally get it. I’ve wanted that damn raptor for years. Cheers for the thoughtful replies.
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Ahh the old school ride achievement perhaps my most coveted achievement…it’s too bad my golden pony turned into a red wolf tho XD I’d like to see them in the game personally. Either way no big deal going undead in classic so won’t affect me.
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This is an issue that needs to be reconsidered.
Mounts or no mounts will have no effect on the people who are planning to rush through leveling. That should be a choice we’re allowed to make for ourselves. This kind of policing and hand-holding is ecactly what we don’t need in classic.
If anything going for another faction’s mount will slow down your leveling. You’ll be going on adventures back and forth across Azeroth looking for the quests you need, planning your course in order to complete them at the right level bevause grey quests give less rep. Possibly only to find out at the end that it was all for nothing because there isn’t enough rep to get to exalted. But what a trip it was!
It adds so much to the experience of leveling and there is no good reason to take them out.
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What your saying works well for a live game. As the game moves on you can make some older things impossible to get and make new things possible to get. Making the mounts limited time only in a static game effectively removes them from the game. Scarcity in a static game can really only be achieved by really low drop rates (think legendary items and baron/zg mounts) Always available but so slow to drop that they never buid up to high levels in the player base.
The gate opening mount will be more or less a non item after the gate has been open some time. People will move on from the game over time so an item that can only be obtained once will disappear in the long run.
The gate epics will be fairly common for anyone that wants them with time. The rep to start the chain will be easy since the raids will already be open and I dont believe that the raid quests actually required a raid to do anything special in the raid, simply finish them, and in the case of bwl finish them with a timer. The ones on the islands I suppose will be tougher since you need to find a group specifically for them and I dont recall how much help you needed on them. I didnt do the chain until BC or wrath and I didnt need help for those.
The unarmored epic mounts were fairly rare in vanilla but certainly I saw them around and if blizz had said we are taking them out period because they were never meant to be in the game then its one thing (still silly to me but at least a solid line of reasoning). The problem with limited time in a static game is that there is never a new limited time thing to replace the old one. In the retail changing side of the game there is always new things to chase, in static classic 3 years from now when someone new tries it and there is zero chance to get things, because it was limited time, there will be nothing new to chase so the limited time doesnt really create scarcity so much as total absence in the long run.
Scarcity in a static game doesnt really add anything to it, its why single player games usually dont do things like this unless its done as a sales boost or to get more money for collectors edition type of marketing.
Cheers to you too! ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
So go play BfA because it has added more content in the game? Your logic is so shallow it’s insane.
It is disappointing.
The biggest problem with WoW’s visual design has always been that they can’t just leave anything alone, they need to pile more and more layers of crap atop it. The original 100% mounts were one of the few things to escape such overadornment.
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I don’t quite get what you mean by a “static game” and how Classic is a static game. It’s not like something like Skyrim where it’s just you and an unchanging world forever. Classic has thousands of players who absolutely aren’t going to be static, and there are 5 phases of content after launch (and it’s been hinted that there might be even more after Naxx).
I am indeed saying its going to be like skyrim. While it will still be a multiplayer game so that part is dynamic the world is static. The phases that blizz is doing is supposed to simulate a non static game but I would expect the servers to have a much longer life span than the phase buckets. The phase buckets are also already fully known, its not like there are any surprises coming down the line. If they follow the original release time frames we would have nax open at something like 1.5 years after launch and after that nothing. They have said this is meant to be a museum piece so that is why I call it static.
Everyone can already plan out all their goals ahead of time, know what items they want to obtain as final items etc. The mystery is gone, no new challenges to replace old ones. The number of scarab lords only goes downhill after the gate opens. Either players leaving or switching mains will make them dwindle down to non existent over time. Likewise the same thing will keep the number of legendaries in check as the influx is really slow and people will quit and or change toons over time.
For people like me who have modest amounts of play time I could take easily take 4+ years just to level one of every class and get all my professions maxed.
I think the original mounts should be added into classic. I disagree that they should be limited to phase one (or two) however. While having them available for a limited time does make them more scarce, it does not add prestige. Playing during a certain time period is not prestigious, total time invested or skill required is. Because of this, I think the unarmored mounts should be available permanently, but that the training cost should never be cheaper than the 1000 gold it was once the armored mounts were added.
I believe this adds more prestige to the unarmored mounts because someone would have to drop 2000 gold (before rep discounts) to obtain and ride one. That’s far more gold than most people will have for a long time, and having that kind of coin to spare would really stand out with the amount of gold players will get in classic. As an added bonus, this adds an additional gold sink to the game which will help keep classic’s economy stable for a longer period of time.
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