Yeah that’s precisely the claim you’re making. A binary fallacy that either you want Vanilla or Retail.
Whereas many of us want Wrath, as it was warts and all. Not this neutered attempt to pander to a group of players who proved they weren’t really wanting Vanilla by immediately leaving Vanilla when TBC was announced.
And now you’re trying to drag Wrath back to the Vanilla you ditched, because you can’t get past your “moral high ground” that’s been shown to be a sham.
Go back to Era servers if you want Vanilla concepts.
Wait, so let me get this straight. You think these two statements are the same?
If so, that absolutely is a reading comprehension issue.
Yeah, it’s a little too late for that. You should’ve been more vocal about “warts and all” when the idea of #SomeChanges first started to pop up.
And there is it. The trump card of those that have no argument. Why would anyone that wants Vanilla concepts go back to Classic Era servers, when they can just play Classic Wrath which is maintaining and building around Vanilla concepts?
That’s the issue you’re not understanding. This phrase would have merit if Classic Wrath had more Retail concepts and one was complaining for Vanilla concepts to be developed into Classic Wrath instead, but that’s not what’s happening, is it, Elorael?
The opposite is happening, where Classic Wrath is being developed around Vanilla concepts. So, one could just as easily say “Play Retail if you want Wrath/Retail concepts” to you, which, as a statement, would have more merit than you telling others to play Classic Era if they want Vanilla concepts.
Does that cover things for you or do you need more explanation?
Precisely, and Wrath, therefore, doesn’t need dungeon finder. The experience will be more true to Wrath if it’s never implemented than if it was implemented at launch. Because the experience we had was overwhelmingly without it.
Depends on when you’re talking about. The substance is the same, but the value of the substance is different depending what era or phase we’re talking about.
Poor Rotationn, can’t ever cope with losing dungeon finder. When will she realize that Retail has what she seeks? When will she realize that all of the incessant whining will be wasted time? Will the wounds ever heal?
While I do respect your opinion, could you please consider stopping with this propaganda?
RDF was in Wrath for effectively the latter half of the expansion.
For people who started from the start, that’s half of their experience.
For people who started in the middle, that can be the entirety of their experience.
Dungeon finder was present for less than half the lifetime and less than 75% of the content of Wrath. Those are facts.
That’s perfectly fine. But it doesn’t change the objective truth that dungeon finder’s absence is more iconic to Wrath than its presence. Unless there’s some objective measure you can think of outside of time and content?
Anecdotal experiences don’t matter in cases like this unless your gameplay design philosophy is to cater to the masses, which is clearly not true of Wrath Classic.
Thank you for clarifying that it was not “overwhelmingly without it.”
I would appreciate if you stick to the facts instead of personal experience or impressions.
It certainly was. I don’t see why the semantics are so important to you in this case. Whether I’m stating plain numbers or just describing those numbers in glittering generalities, the scales are objectively tipped away from dungeon finder.
You were also responding to a quote string that was several posts deep into my interaction with Ziryus. I believe I’ve stated these exact things as raw data at least 2 other times in this thread, and rather than just repeating that over and over again, I used different words to reference it.
Well right back at you. Nothing I’ve stated here is “propaganda” to any reasonable individual.
There’s a group of degenerates that need to touch grass in these forums…which oddly seems to be the crowd Blizz is pandering too with wotlkc. Classic was made for nostalgia sake and unfortunately people who lack self control are ruining that experience and Blizz is capitalizing on it to milk whales and push retail.
Why lie? LFD was released in patch 3.3 on Dec 8th, 2009. Wotlk was released Nov 13th, 2008. Cata was released Dec 7th 2010. Dungeon Finder was out for HALF of the expansion’s lifetime…and was in-game for a year before Cata dropped.
Wrath’s launch (11/13/2008) to 3.3.0 (12/8/2009): 390 days
3.3.0 (12/8/2009) to Cataclysm’s launch (12/7/2010): 364 days
Wrath’s total launch to launch lifespan: 754 days
754 ÷ 2 = 377
So let’s evaluate my “lie”.
“Dungeon finder was present for less than half the lifetime”
Let’s substitute “half the lifetime” with the actual number.
“Dungeon finder was present for less than 377 days”
Hmm. Is 364 a larger number than 377? Maybe you should actually know what you’re talking about before you call someone a liar?
Now if we actually count the game version with pre-patches (WoW’s code literally transitioned from TBC to Wrath when 3.0.0 went live on 10/14/2008) and consider how one expansion’s experience immediately ends when the next expansion’s pre-patch goes live, the dungeon finder’s absence is far longer than its presence.
Of course, everyone who wants dungeon finder conveniently all seem to agree that this isn’t the way we should look at expansions when we’re talking about dungeon finder, so I won’t bother actually making that case here.
The irony is delicious. You care enough about this issue to call people who disagree with you degenerates. You are literally just the other side of the coin you’re insulting there.
Maybe your wounds will heal if you… I don’t know, go outside and touch grass?
Well first almost half of wrath was with LFD and since it worked on all dungeons it played a large role in helping people level alts. And it’s not a question of need, it’s that LFD greatly improves the dungeon pugging experience.
Which once again LFD doesn’t change, the value of said dungeons remains the same whether you enter them through LFD or otherwise.
You’re intentionally trying to misrepresent that Dungeon Finder was around for half the entire expansion and downplaying its use. That’s lying, regardless of how you want to shift goalposts.
Your desire to gatekeep people’s fun via dishonesty is what makes you degenerate. Same as the level 10 forum trolls who live 24/7 on the forums to try and derail legitimate discussions(which was who I was referring to in previous post).
Dungeon finder was in wotlk for less than half of its life time. Its only close to half if you IGNORE factors like the content drought. By taking the average of the raw time it was actually in the game (49%) AND the major content patches ot was present in (25%) then averaging the two this gives a mich begter representation of how much of wotlk it was actually part of because it takes into context the content drought that had 3.3 lasting almost as long as 3.0, 3.1, and 3.2 all together. Which comes out to be about 37%.
YOU are the one intentionally ignoring facts to meet your agenda.
As for the gatekeeping argument. The only one gatekeeping you from doing 5 man heroics in wotlk is yourself. They are so easy you can do most of them with 4 dps and a healer who is actually a dps just casting some heals.
They are clearing heroic dungeons in wotlk beta at lvl 78. They are easy as crap and once we have ToC gear some classes will likely be able to SOLO these heroics.
LFD was in Wrath for nearly half of its time. And it was not a content specific feature to ICC it applied to all dungeons. Which is one of the major reasons people want it, to use while leveling.
Generally, I disagree. But it depends on where your priorities are. If you just want to blow through content faster, then it’s definitely better. But maximizing content per hour is definitely not my priority, at least in terms of the way the game is designed.
I don’t know why you’re saying this – I never said anything about the value of the dungeons being different based on your method of entering them. I’m talking about when dungeons are relevant or not.
Once again, the figures I’m saying are facts. If facts are so upsetting to you, then I would say it’s probably you who has suspect motives. I’m not downplaying anything, moving goalposts or lying as you accuse me of. Less than half the lifetime and less than 25% of the content, those are facts.
You can keep repeating this mantra like a disturbed mental patient, but it doesn’t make it true. I have no interest in “gatekeeping” and of course I want everyone to have as much fun as possible. Disagreeing with your idea of what makes the game better has nothing to do with anything you’re talking about.
cope
seethe
mald
It doesn’t matter. We’re talking about whether dungeon finder belongs in the game. You know what else isn’t content-specific? Updated character models. That would affect players at all levels, and it wouldn’t matter if it was implemented at the very end of the expansion in pre-patch, it would still affect ALL gameplay. But when determining whether it would be a good thing to have in an expansion’s respective Classic release, it doesn’t matter how content-specific it was. What matters is whether the iconic experience of a content era includes the feature in question.
What Redhead and I are talking about is whether dungeon finder necessarily needs to be in Wrath Classic for it to offer the “iconic” Wrath experience. And for that purpose, every objective measure that I can think of says “no.”
You can talk about how it’s not content-specific all you like, but that’s no argument for it to be in the game.
Maybe you should actually know what you’re talking about before you call someone a liar?
