We need AV with the 1.5 NPC’s.
We all just Blast NPC’s with so much ease in this version. Because we all have the experience with the game, the addons the preparation etc.
We do not have Vanilla Knowledge as back then. So using the easy version of AV was a Bad call IMO since most Classic players are WoW vets.
If they did move it back you’d just hear people blaming it on “muh racialz”
The alliance that actually care about pvping, are premading. The rest are generally much worse players that aren’t good at pvp from what I’ve seen. The disparity is actually pretty immense.
I have not lost a single initial fight today.
We lose because we get zerged at IBGY because of how fast horde can reinforce due to their starting caves position.
See your timing is wrong. You should defend shgy and your territory (yay turtles!) until your offense caps ibgy. Once it is capped, by whatever means necessary (stealth, force or single hero), is when you push to the gy.
I understand how reinforcements work in this game and where they come from. This is why I am saying your push is not after the initial push back because even if you had a small team moving to ibgy while the majority of you defend (yay turtle!), the odds are high that we are going to rezz on them. This is why I have posted in this thread here multiple times tonight that you need to wait till after the first or perhaps even second rezzing of our force to attempt to cap.
And yes, bum rushing (I have been saying zerg) is effective form of defense and I am encouraging you guys to use it, please read my posts carefully, there are many in this thread and I am saying the same thing many times.
So in review, defend shgy because it puts you at an extreme disadvantage once you lose it. Since the same thing happens to us when we lose ibgy, the other concurrent objective should be to time your capping of ibgy right after we rezz and again move forward. Once you guys get this down, you can expect us to adapt because you know, pvp.
The argument is, we still smash you. PUG to PUG.
literally in a game right now where we were successfully defending against horde and they just 10 man backdoored us easily running past all of our npcs and archers -_-;
great strategy genius its almost like you don’t know SHGY is deathtrap that is wide open and can be easily encircled with no escape for the alliance
Your understanding of the game is wrong.
This is what we used to do in premade avs except that we could organize a 40 man to have enough healers to actually hold IBGY without going oom and keep have a few people to rez people that died.
Does horde have to coordinate out of combat rezers at any point in AV? No. Because that amount of coordination isn’t needed to win.
It is impossible to defend SHGY and attack IBGY because of where your spawn point is. Your spawn cave is closer to IBGY then SHGY. Your spawn cave is closer to SHGY then our spawn cave is. As I said before, you can zerg IBGY and keep picking people off and eventually overrun it before out reinforcements can get there.
You have the distance advantage on both graveyards. Not only that but your archers can actually defend IBGY if we poke to far forward.
those were server specific things and not even remotely comparable to cross-realm bg’s
back then there were servers where alliance dominated
and servers where horde did
then when it went to battlegroups it was the same just on a larger scale
cross-realm changes absultely everything
tldr; terrible comparison
Also 1.12 was the pre naxx patch.
So this version of AV didn’t come out until Vanilla was almost done.
You are insulting me yet you are the one who did not trinket? You do not need to defend shgy with 40 if horde are attacking it with 30. If you do then no amount of proper strategy is going to help you.
It’s almost as if horde haven’t noticed that the choke point for alliance is behind our grave yards which is open to attack. Where as their chokes are in front of their graveyards which are easier to defend.
The position is absolutely a huge advantage. It was fixed historically for good reason, and I don’t know how you can possibly argue otherwise. I was horde back when this version was current content, and the only reason Alliance tended to win back then was because Horde meta then was to prefer quick games over long wins. I know because I explicitly tried to get people to go for the longer wins, and everyone rejected it. Of course, it also wasn’t under this honor system anymore, so people were just playing for marks. We also didn’t have insane queues back then.
Note though that I don’t want things “fixed” - I want it set back to the original Korrak AV, personally. This whole notion that Blizzard needs to go through and fix all the stuff that’s not working right with Classic is stupid, and entirely counter to what we’re here for. Blizzard DID ‘fix’ all this stuff, and it gave us (ultimately) Retail.
And finally - if you think it’s so terrible, and that players like me are the problem, why don’t you step up and play Alliance? Go show us how it’s done by leading the Pug groups to victory, since you clearly think it’s so simple.
why do you keep bringing up trinket? I’m talking about SHGY being nearly undefendable
horde ride up to SHGY from stonehearth side and icewing side completely avoiding our towers then spawn camp us.
horde can get to SHGY before we even have a chance to engage them at a tower. It’s a freakin joke.
This is a solid argument and as a priest who plays shadow I often attempt to rezz on offense but more often then not miss the rezz because someone releases and catches a rezz before I can.
Again I am all for moving the cave back IF the distance from the cave to the end boss is not equidistant. If the distances are equal considering the most direct route (you guys have always won the race games more consistently) then I do not think they should be moved as you would have even more reason to zerg the boss.
And since we are not there and Blizzvision has not commented on this, these gy’s become the most important objectives determining who will win, exploits aside. Our current meta of capping the two towers and riding back to recap may work for you but instead of capping towers, cap the GY? Once you have the gy capped, send a few back to recap shgy, provided we actually cap it?
There are always ways to over come, you guys used to own AV when we did not play defense, still do. Perhaps all you need to do is add some back capping into your offense and instead of zerging our base on offense, start with ibgy instead?
I do not know, it seems to me a counter cap would be effective considering there is a chance of 30s rezz + walking through the tunnel to mount + support from defense. I mean ffs, you have been posting you have not lost a battle in mid tonight, if that is the case, how could you not hold a gy that you have taken considering you have reinforced it and now hypothetically both zergs should be meeting at ibgy.
Obviously not every strat is going to work against every team because all things related to players will never be equal. Sometimes you will have to adapt and sometimes you are going to lose. But if as you said you were wining multiple mid fights all the time, then there shouldnt be a reason you can not time a cap in-between our rezzes and continue to defeat us at ibgy.
Something just does not add up. And again I am all for moving the tunnel if and on if it is determined that from where we each start the distance to the Vann/Drek is different. Adjust accordingly.
Interesting replies here. But At this point Defense for the Alliance is Broken.
I cannot believe how Developers let this slip through. In Vanilla things were not as Broken, how come they are in Classic?
For the alliance to play Defensively, there has to be only one entrance to Dun Baldar, the bridge. That is where the great Alliance Defense was happening back in vanilla and managed to push Back horde when full team in DB, and usually defended DB with 10-20 Defense while the rest of people were the Offense, some sneak out Take SH or SF and then we pushed SP and voila we are back fighting at IB.
But this version is broken, because there are 2-3 entries to Dun Baldar. The so called Backdoor, which is very easy to walk up to in to DB and contest the Bunkers.
I do agree that SH is vital in the opening stage of the game.
Yet so is Snowfall, snowfall is actually very vital to both sides. The side that Controls snowfall has the advantage.
Ive actually thought about it for the challenge but quite frankly I am not playing right now. I am trying to quit the game, I no longer play retail and you are right, not much of classic is actually vanilla.
I personally ranked up in wsg and ab, I did not play av early on. In fact right at release f bg’s I quit pvping because I love world pvp. I was champion when bg;s released, prob 3rd or 4th on server at time but I stopped. I do not remember how far I dropped rank wise when I started to bg and go for hwl again, I remember ab was out.
Anyways I am open for other versions, the problem is we have what we have. And if you fix the horde cave to give you more time to cap ibgy, what other problem does that cause. Are the intended routs from cave equal currently? If they are, what would happen to games if you guys got had an increased advantage of time needed to get to Drek?
What if we find that direct path from cave to Drek/Vann currently actually favors the alliance, what would moving the horde cave back do??? I mean we are asking for these things without actually knowing how it might affect game play. We are essentially making assumptions.
I am trying to point out that we have what we have and right now the only way the alliance are helping themselves is by premade, which has unintended consequences. Which is what concerns me about moving the cave, which brings us back to you guys timing the ibgy cap correctly and doing everything you can to get in there to support that cap while simultaneously defending shgy.
If the distances are not equal to the boss, move the cave, for good or for worse for both factions.
Do horde players que in pve specs? It seems to me most horde warrs are arms alliance are mainly fury or prot? Same with rogues they are all combat not sub. Alliance has more healers, but all the mortal strike buffs seem to negate any healer advantage.
Really? You are the one who brought up how unfair it was the horde would use the trinket and stop alliance advance in our base. Then in another post you complained that we used the back door while you were defending shgy and you lost, or whatever. I brought up the trinket because you insulted me but you and your team were the ones who decided not to use your trinket, because you know you get them too, to defend your base when you lost.
Why would you want to engage us at a tower? Towers mean horde side which means you are at a disadvantage because we have our archers and other static/pat npcs possibly up. I mean quite frankly, I would prefer to pvp alliance in alliance territory out in the open if possible, having npc dps to contend with too sucks.
But since you guys pretty much dont defend, it isnt an isssue. I can solo cap all 3 of your gys by simply leading with a nuke on a non elite then cycling through and dotting everyone minus the elite lt. From there I pull them as close to the flag as possible and then fear and proceed to cap. All the non elites will die, all I have to do is drop agro on the lt. You can imagine how many times I have been killed by a single defender doing this.
Narrow focused defense will not work. If we are using the back door, plan accordingly. Since you are defending, you have npc + gy advantage, defense should require an inferior force. If you need equal numbers to hold off an offense whith these advantages, you are going to have a rough b no matter what you do. Sometimes rng has one force superior to the other. With alliance premades, this is compounded in various ways.
You guys have your work cut out for you, no sense making things harder on yourselves by doing stupid things (like not using your trinket to defend your base).
If it doesnt help the horde bliz will not do it.
yeah the backdoor being so easy and effective is what I think lowers alliance win rate from 10% to 1%