No Rational Explanation For AV Win %

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
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Friend, you wrote ‘They rez at IBGY. Guess where our 8 offensive players are just now arriving?’ and my response was, if this was the case, ‘your timing is all wrong’.

I mean if you can realize that you reach ibgy at the same time we rezz, why on azeroth would you attempt to cap it at the time instead of waiting a few seconds for peeps to mount up and ride off. Send a stealth scout, hell you only need two stealth to cap the flag. Just friggin wait! I mean if some of us stick around and buff on the first rezz and you are concerned we are going to contest the cap, wait till we ride off or it is apparent we are afk. Maybe wait till after the second rezz, in the meantime your defense should be racking up hk’s because gy and npc advantage.

How was my reply not on point?

*edited post to reflect that I copied the wrong part of your post that i was responding to.

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No you really are not understanding. Horde put alliance on defense long before we can do the same. Even if we fully commit to defense at the start, we’ll have to wipe horde multiple times just to get to the horde side of the map.

Meanwhile horde are still slamming SH, our bunker or bunkers are capped, Balinda is being assaulted and our gy is being attacked. We have to magically defend from all angles and still get players on offense - even your not well thought out advice to take SF. Id argue this takes much more coordination than zerging the same location on the map over and over.

What are horde doing while alliance are scrambling to keep our bunkers and Balinda and our gy while sending an offense forward? Rez at IBGY and run back to SH. Die. Rez at IBGY and run back to SH.

Until you’ve played this side of the map, you can’t understand which just makes it impossible to offer any insight.

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244

No you really are not understanding. Horde put alliance on defense long before we can do the same. Even if we fully commit to defense at the start, we’ll have to wipe horde multiple times *just to get to the horde side of the map.

No I understand and I do not see what the problem is. I mean if the strategy works given the current climate of the battle ground and you are defending your territory while making a push into the opposing territory then that means you are winning and we are losing. It apparently just does not fit into your expectations of how it should go so instead you complain or do not do anything or just give up. This is completely your fault.

Meanwhile horde are still slamming SH, our bunker or bunkers are capped, Balinda is being assaulted and our gy is being attacked. We have to magically defend from all angles and still get players on offense - even your not well thought out advice to take SF. Id argue this takes much more coordination than zerging the same location on the map over and over.

Uh defense is so much easier then offense because you have advantages of the gy and your npcs to add damage. If we are so spread out, essentially over extended, it should be very easy for you to clean us up. Honor wise Balinda is the same as any other lt, though she does buff you, which is important to a degree, I mean +health = more chance to survive. So maybe defend her as second priority after shgy, then recap shgy, kill stragglers.

Just because we kill some lt’s and maybe a commander does not mean much in the grand scheme of things if you are the ones capable of capping the first gy in opposing faction territory. I mean right now is the time, we are so over extended and mostly do not even defend ibgy, especially on initial push. So just wait till right after rezz for your offense to cap and once its cap, keep urging everyone to mount and ride up to support it. Hell take time to cap sfgy and pull lt’s there before you push ibgy. What does it matter how long it takes, as long as it works?

What are horde doing while alliance are scrambling to keep our bunkers and Balinda and our gy while sending an offense forward ? Rez at IBGY and run back to SH. Die. Rez at IBGY and run back to SH.

So we are predictable, use it t your advantage.

Until you’ve played this side of the map, you can’t understand which just makes it impossible to offer any insight.

It does not take playing the other side to be able to imagine what I might do, especially after having exalted close to 10 different toons in AV over 15 years. I mean, really?

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Its funny. Because back in vanilla the map was the exact same and i remember winning nearly 90% of my matches as alliance.

Maybe if you people didn’t afk like little children and played. You would win.

The issue is not the cave. Its that 1/3 to 2/3 of your group is afk.

Moving the starting point of horde will not change alliance losing if you continue to play scared.

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246

It’s also an attitude issue. Alliance won’t adapt, and they seem to refuse to defend.

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What are alliance doing at stone hearth?

Just post on your horde already.

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You are absolutely clueless.
Every single game starts with Alliance on defense. I had three games last night where the Alliance was clearly more organized than the Horde but the map punishes Alliance so much that it takes perfect communication to make even the smallest headway.

The Alliance CANT DEFEND AND ATTACK AT THE SAME Time. You know full well that the horde don’t even have to try to defend ibgy they just do by virtue of spawning there because it’s so easily defended. Shgy is so open that any Alliance committed to attack drastically reduce their ability to defend.

So we have Alliance requiring way more offense to take a harder position AND way more defense to defend a weaker poisition at the SAME TIME. the Horde are never placed in this position in this map ever. Horde don’t choose to defend more than Alliance, they just do because the map puts them there by default.

And then when we manage to cap sfgy, our split raid trying to defend Shgy gets overrun and because of the hordes clear map advantage there is no recovery.

You post all day long about how Alliance just aren’t good enough and pretend everything is totally fair but every single point in this map boyond the dB bridge is designed to funnel brainless horde zergs into victory.

This map is garbage and your refusal to admit tells me you’re either a horde alt or an idiot.

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the alliance are not good at pvp and are now whining becasue they cant win av because they arnt good.

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Usually getting farmed and crying about how unfair things are, and calling out AFK’s.

You know, I reserved some Horde names before launch, but haven’t logged on, yet.

They start with the exact same strategy which leads to SHGY every time (or, SPGY if the Horde cap SH early.)

I’ve been in plenty PuG AV’s, before and after the change. This is what I observe in most fights.

They can, they just choose not to. We certainly used to, though! This stupid “death ball” thing got people thinking that it’s the only way we can win. Spawning at SHGY and trying to make it across the Field of Strife while the Horde take down our bunkers is senseless.

I never say they’re not good enough. I’m saying that the players are refusing to move away from a method that isn’t working.

Wasn’t his the premade strategy that the Alliance used and are still trying to cling to? The Horde usually don’t zerg. They cap and defend.

It really isn’t. We do win when we play the long game. Most of the points of contention are not from bad design. They’re from folks not wanting to really do what’s needed. The back door issue in our base is not hard to defend. Horde rarely send more than a couple people that way, and a few ranged DPS could fend them off before they can get to our bunkers. (I’ve managed to defend this point a few times, and some morons felt the need to call me out as AFK since I wasn’t getting farmed at SHGY) In the end, that’s a PvP solution to a PvP problem. Sometimes we can actually fix things, if we try! (I suggest you try some day… you might even enjoy it!)

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I love all the complicated explanations of why AV is won/lost. In every Alliance PuG I’ve been in the last two weeks, their strat is to pile up outside galv and pick off stragglers until the group thins out, then to willy-nilly run all over the north part of the map for 45 min while Horde slowly caps towers and GYs and backs alliance into the cave.

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I never mentioned the back door, but that’s all you horde ever focus on dB is hard to attack! DB is so strong Alliance should win!

I have been trying non stop to find different strategies and work with players to overcome the horde advantage but you are doing the same thing every horde player does. You assume just because you win that it was because you were good. You can’t handle the truth that the map was designed to make you win.

Alliance have to be so much more organized as a pug than the Horde do that even Alliance premades still lose sometimes. If the map was balanced a premade would wipe the floor with a pug every single time.

You constantly go on and on about defense but when was the last time turtling (which is what Alliance are forced to do every single game) won the game? Your answer will be “the horde turtle and win!” you’re right they do because the map allows them the luxury of being able to defend with a much smaller force than the Alliance at every single point in the map.

I’ve been in games where the Alliance retake SHGY. Multiple times, where Alliance are all clustered at SHGY defending and the horde constantly win because they can surround and control the fight with no interference from towers, and no choke to hold them back. The Alliance don’t get the option of flanking horde attackers. The Alliance don’t get the option of attacking with full force while having their gy unattackable. The Alliance can’t contest SHGY because the horde spawn closer to it than the Alliance do!!

How can you deny all of this? You expect every Alliance pug to be a tier 1 premade in skill and the horde can just roll in and do whatever they want and still win? Even when the horde are scattered all over FOS, and they are scattered all the time, they still win because they don’t have to worry about defending IBGY. It defends itself.

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perhaps you should cap sfgy before your offense starts moving forward.

This is where you delusion is starting to fail your persistent berating of people in this thread. You have no clue. We’ve had nearly full premades try exactly what you’re saying and fail, multiple times. Why? Honestly because you’re stubborn. You can’t JUST have SH, you have to have SF too. You can’t just have SH and SF, you have to have IBGY. How do I know that, because literally any time we try and take anything that gives us some breathing room away from your farming blob, you just redirect the whole damn thing where we are. Doesn’t matter where. I mean yeah, it’s working. You’re fking winning and them some, but if this were a boxing match you’d have more than a few below the belt calls by now. You can still achieve your goal will still allowing us to salvage some of ours.

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This is it.[quote=“Rhami-dragonblight, post:252, topic:433776”]
I have been trying non stop to find different strategies and work with players
[/quote]

Me, too. But they won’t work with me!

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I wouldn’t work with someone who thinks defending dB is a winning strategy either, so I don’t blame them.

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The starting location (which I would have no issue moving back for the Horde) isn’t why you are losing all the battles after the initial clash. At some point you need to hold your team accountable for not stopping them anywhere on the map.

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this map lays out the issues with the imbalanced map quite well.

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Well it outlines the ones that effect Alliance while not even mentioning ones that effect the Horde. If you can’t see the value of the bridge going into Dun Baldar you deserve to lose.

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Why don’t you enlighten us about this Alliance defensive position that you seem to know about that we don’t?

We can’t hold SHGY and attack at the same time like you do with IBGY. Period.

There it is again. The old “well dB is difficult to attack for horde” how many games have you lost after taking SHGY. And forcing the Alliance to defend dB? Go on I’m listening.

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If you’d like to explain, i’d be interested to hear it. The bridge in dun baldar would be a useful choke point, if not for the ability to go around and wallwalk your way into the alliance base through the back.

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I’ve lost many under that circumstance, literally one last night where Ally snuck a win while we were on Vann by holding us off at the bridge while they methodically worked on Offense. It requires multiple groups coordinating and attacking objectives and not people being non productive.

Blockquote If you’d like to explain, i’d be interested to hear it. The bridge in dun baldar would be a useful choke point, if not for the ability to go around and wallwalk your way into the alliance base through the back.

I’ve never seen more than 10 Horde go backdoor and it isn’t hard to block someone from making that jump with just a couple ranged. It’s entirely preventable to let anyone in the backdoor.

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