The winning condition for you is indeed to avoid fights. You lose pvp fights wherever they are on the board. Alliance only succeeds if they can turn the game into a race to kill NPCs.
What do you imagine would happen if you DIDN’T fight on the bunker, but instead in the very middle of FoS (where the “move the cave” lot are pushing for), and wiped 40 horde and lost 10 alliance?
IB is a good chokepoint, but talking like it is impenetrable is asinine defeatist nonsense. The moment most horde rez ar IBGY, they immediately mount and ride back north. NOT to the west and the choke.
Definition of insanity.
That deserves a big fat 
Perhaps if you were not stuck in PVE mentality and actually had people trinket back (you know, alliance can do that too), perhaps games might play out differently.
Wonderful arguments as usual from the horde trolls. Keep it up, pretty soon you’ll be up against just bots and AFKs, just like you wanted. Anyone with a brain is going to avoid this like the plague.
Awesome. Didn’t read your wall of text; tired of arguing with inflammatory horde players. Maybe you’re right. You probably are. Don’t care anymore because I’ve been drained of all desire to AV ever again. Do you care that the opposite faction is waylaid under your feet? Doesn’t really matter if you care or not. What are you doing when we’re all gone?
If you actually bothered to read my wall 9 lines of text you’d realize that the problem with Alliance Pugs in AV is your own faction. The main reason that PuG allies are so bad that you’re never going to play AV again is because all the allies that actually care about PvP are playing in a premade. I kept it to four lines this time, maybe you can actually manage to read that!
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Probably the same thing. I think most is due to queue times. Wasn’t arguing moving the cave would help, just that winning a fight is a long way from winning the war.
If I wait an hour to play, I’m gonna play. If I’m getting instant queues, there’s a good chance I’m sick of actually trying for the 15th game in a row at grinding mindless honor (I ranked in 2004 and have no desire thus time around–i felt this apathy from just 4 days of grinding exalted on 2 chars/revered on 1). In original vanilla, alliance was dominant on most servers maybe leading to the better win%.
Also, horde are going to generally be better geared/have epic mounts. I think people underestimate how much of a benefit it is to have uncontested farm on most PvP servers. I’d like to see statistics on overall gear level averages between horde/ally raiding guilds on pvp servers…probably could be pulled from log data.
I’d also guess horde also use raid buff consumes (candles, etc). Alliance spam so many games so quick it’s annoying/costly to buff–you can tell you’re in a premade just by whether you got buffed. Being able to farm between games also means better gear for early rankers.
Horde racials are really strong. Although less so in group PvP (25% stun resist can be catastrophic in a 1v1). Wotf is great though since its a temporary invuln…getting feared in dreks room while pulling has caused more wipes/losses single handedly than anything else I saw, and if im not a dwarf priest I can’t reliably count on fear ward.
But yeah, the map was balanced based on stronger NPCs. The old bridge turtle was insanely strong. (Before that there was also even time where alliance dismounted in the tower leading to FWRH…now that was effective at stopping pushes).
So should horde reach our tower or Belinda before we can? Probably not.
Should the map be symmetrical? Probably not. (Listen to the interview with John Staats or read his book, super interesting on how passionate he was on level design).
Would moving the cave back a little add to the fairness? Probably. It’s definitely favorable to start closer to objectives–some wierd logic on here about how its actually worse…had someone arguing high ground doesn’t provide an advantage at SPGY the other day too…
Should the cave be moved? Probably not. This is classic, and the fewer changes the better.
We can talk about hardiness imbalance when hammer of justice is removed from the game
do you hear what you are typing you are actually mad that some one is winning and some one isnt winning…lol.
Spoiler Alert: Hardiness gets nerfed. Hammer of justice still in the game. Your priests need to find their dispel if hoj is a problem.
coming from a rogue, this is hilarious.
No it’s not. This fantasy of separate but equal is where your logic falls apart. People who want to PVP seriously went Horde mostly because the racials are better. Not enough to make a real difference, but those who seriously want to compete go for any advantage they can get. As an example, just watch the MDI and see the exact same classes and comps over and over.
They’re too busy mind controlling and melting faces. We don’t have a healer class that’s completely worthless at anything that’s not healing to shoe horn into the role like you guys do.
Lol what priests
HoJ is a death sentence in group pvp. It may as well deal 10000 damage if you don’t get heals.
Im a serious horde ranker and I agree. Move us further south to make it fair. I even try telling the horde to go easy on graveyard camping of alliance bc I feel bad
What premades? You mean the fragments of people (myself included) that got scattered in the wind by your whining?
Again, advertising that you don’t know what you’re talking about. Ally premades are alive and well.
No, it’s truly you that don’t know. For every functional healthy premade you face, there’s 3 that have to deal with crippled numbers. Side effects of the new ways we have to make it work. Wanna keep going?
Horde has the map advantage of the cave being further north, but Alliance always just zergs and runs right by GYs. A lot of it is that Ally never relearned how to win AV because they were either in premades or horrible PUG groups that got stomped.
Ehh, it is all going to deteriorate from here on out, anyway. There will be a snowball effect as the horde queue times get longer and longer as alliance simply quits playing av. We already outnumber alliance by a lot on every pvp server except maybe one or two, so being out in the world is basically a pve experience. I have a horde toon and an alliance toon, and on my horde toon I never get attacked, and if I do, I just have to run thirty yards and there will be other horde there to help me. On my alliance toon, I enter any zone and have 3 or 4 people on me in a matter of minutes if not seconds.
So as the alliance experience gets worse in AV, and they quit aving, they will also suffer a worse experience in world because the horde queues are longer, and it will all just snowball to the point that alliance raid logs or transfers to a pve server. I’m basically to the point of raid logging on my ally toon. It’s just not fun.