There’s been cringe, we’ve cried, we’ve laughed… overall the same Story Forums.
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I’d feel sorry for him, but I don’t.
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Bold words for someone posting on a Zandalari.
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And again, this is an example of what I’m saying; Alliance complain even when the Horde suffers, when the Horde loses, because it’s never enough.
Did the Alliance get to defeat Sylvannas? Not yet, but they will. Why didn’t they get to defeat her already? I dunno, not like a time-displaced army showed up, followed by the allegedly largest Legion invasion ever seen.
But still, they will get to defeat her.
Oh my god. For real? Nobody said the Alliance helped the Horde pick their new warchief. I said they forced a regime change. I’ve said it often enough that you mistaking that for me even insinuating they picked Vol’jin has to be intentional. The closest I came to that is when I said they backed the rebel leadership, so backed that leadership taking the leadership of the Horde.
You won’t somehow “disprove” my points by misrepresenting them.
And this is the heart of why the Alliance player-base will never be satisfied; as soon as some degree of satisfaction, accountability, loss or change happens, you handwave it away as irrelevant because of some future event.
No, Sylvannas’s actions don’t invalidate defeating Garrosh, because Garrosh is still defeated. He’s still gone. He’s still dead. WWII didn’t invalidate WWI just because most of the major players were involved. WWI still happened, still had victors, still had losers. And the consequences of that loss eventually led to the rise of the major belligerents of WWII.
As Garrosh getting deposed, Varian and Vol’jin being too preoccupied with two other “world threatening events”, and nobody being in a position to keep Sylvannas in check led to the present circumstances (and possibly some outside aide helping Sylvy along).
Garrosh getting deposed still happened. It’s still a win. I’m sorry it’s not “win enough” for you guys, but really nothing seems like it ever will be.
I’m done.
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Having that kind of a plot would have been nothing more than beating Greymane with a villain bat even more perverse than the one that was handed to Sylvannas. He and his wife are bloody GRATEFUL to the Night Elves for saving thier people. Havig him do this would have been regressing him to a state even worse than the misanthrope who buil the namesake Wall.
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About time. Should have happened years ago when Varian said we would.
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Because?
She burned down a tree no Horde (with Tauren being the exception) should care about?
She was brainwashing an Alliance royal to end the war?
Don’t see the big deal with her. She’s fine, unless you’re one of those people who really wants to lowkey fight forever. The options were:
Bad peace for extended period of time, during which grace period we would’ve both developed weapons of mass destruction and then murdered one another.
Have it out before that happened.
I’ll stick to tree-kindling and brainwashing an Alliance character nobody cares about. Try to, rather, because my own faction’s ‘leaders’ seem intent on being defective because ‘muh honor’, effectively meaning all the lives lost in this war are wasted because people don’t want to put their personal values aside and end things outright. We’ve tried ‘honor’ since, what, Legion and all prior? How well did that work out?
Right. Still killing each other.
And yeah, the whole ‘non-combatant’ thing - I’ve been to Tel long before BFA. You walked in there at any point in time and those ‘non-combatant’ npcs would not hesitate to aggro. Night Elves have a history, also, of being ‘unwelcoming’ to outsiders in general regardless of their proclaimed status. What I’m saying is: we’re not talking about a bunch of people IRL: first-world and generally coddled people who’ve likely never seen much of the outside world; we’re talking about a group of ancient people who’ve lived longer lives than any of us could do at current, who’ve probably killed their fair share of things and know what war foretells. People make the mistake of looking at Night Elves like they’re human.
They’re not.
And they’ve killed a lot of Hordies in Ashenvale and other bordering territories, and I know that’s what they proclaim as “their home” and whatnot, but being Horde makes me inclined not to care, because at the end of the day my people > theirs, so no - I don’t have any hangups about burning down their tree. It eliminates (or at least prevents) the possibility for more Horde casualties.
And the whole ‘genocide’? We didn’t go to Tel with the intent on wiping out every single NE; we went there with the intent to take the tree - and we did. The best case argument you could make there would be to call it apathetic collateral as opposed to genocide, as we (Sylvanas and the ilk related) just didn’t care about (the NE there) it. The whole “ends justify the means”, and in this context, yes, it’s the thing to do. Why?
Because nothing else works. Ever. You down to just kill each other forever? Cause I’m not.
Credit where it’s due (and we all know how loath I am to give credit to Blizz these days). I can appreciate how they’ve turned the usual narrative on its head with the Orcs, where the “noble savages” are the “evil colonists”, stealing land and resources while brutalizing the natives.
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Yes, and Saurfang seems to think there’s a difference because of his buzzword.
Really isn’t. Kind of like that South Park episode where you have the two parties who’re ‘for the war’ and ‘against the war’, where Saurfang is part of the hippy crowd. Only problem is that his philosophy doesn’t work because, as stated by someone else on another thread, he seems to forget that he was “a literal alien invader who raided cities while roided up on demon blood”.
Kind of weird to get moral lectures from someone who quite possibly ate children due to his commentary about the pig farm right outside of Org and how it sounds like children (hence why he doesn’t eat them).
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Y’know what? I completely agree. I think it would have been a great idea if the Alliance had committed themselves to a war far in the north right as the Iron Horde were popping up in their south.
Then, the entire argument would be moot; Stormwind would have been overrun, as they were the closest major city to the Dark Portal and Garrosh had a hate-on for them. A great solution for all involved, and we’d all be much better off for it.
You forgot option three, where Anduin shares love and peace with everyone that lasts for all time. That’s about as sound of logic as what you are using, using your own conclusion as evidence to prove that conclusion.
The Iron Horde? They didn’t even make it out of the Blasted Lands before Khadgar and Thrall sent us through the Dark Portal and we all kicked the Iron Horde’s teeth in so quickly they never looked like a threat to begin with.
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Guess you forgot that the Alliance and Horde first had to fight to keep them in the Blasted Lands before Khadgar and Thrall could do much of anything. Not surprising.
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(Sid Phillips voice)
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People really missed the message of WC3 huh
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I’m pretty sure you can still do those quests now, you just won’t get the “of the Iron Vanguard” title, which wasn’t the whole Alliance or Horde army, and was pretty easy to clean up the situation.
So did Blizzard.
Well I can’t argue there.
I mean… Ok? Why are you bringing this up, other than as a non sequitur?
Didn’t say it was.
Quests are liars now? Since as you point out you can go right now and do those quests, go do them. Tell me after that it’s described as an easy clean-up and not an imminent threat.
I’d normally go into detail explaining how committing Alliance forces to attacking Sylvy would necessitate the Horde also committing forces to defend Sylvy in those pre-BfA days, and if both armies are fighting in the north there’s no one to stop the IH in the south, but if it’s not obvious to you, then there’s no use in making it more obvious.
You already covered my point for me:
That’s what I was implying you should do.
Indeed pre-BfA, during the Legion Invasion pre-expansion events to Legion, the Alliance still had forces stationed at Hillsbrad. The Alliance had to have sent new forces there since the Horde players defeated them during their leveling questing. Those forces were not seen at the Blasted Lands, however, so I find your premise faulty.
Why? So I can again see that yes, the Iron Horde was treated as a real threat prior to us going to Draenor?
Already know that, buddy.
Oh, well, since you seem to think a small force is more than enough to defeat the entire Forsaken forces already defending Sylvannas at that time and no atual army is needed to IDK storm the gates of the Undercity, I’m sure your judgment of my premise is perfectly legit. It’s not like we’ve got a single example of an entire army being needed in that case.