And exactly what would you provide for Mythic raiders?
The same that you provide for Gladiator pvp players.
So hereâs the thing, it really looks like youâre asking for rewards that are not earned. We can argue difficulty ratings all day of PVP, M+, or Mythic Raiding. Wonât change anything.
I would love to see all three routes have equal progression, but people will always use the path of least resistance. At the start of this expac, it was obvious PVP was stupid easy, (and usually is). So everyone jumped on it to push raid. While M+ was hard capped at 210 for most of the time. Yeah, you could get 1 226 item once a week, but most of the time it was better to just do Mythic raids. So the concept of giving higher tier rewards for the content you are working on is pretty cringe.
Thatâs exactly what M+ does.
1 item a week thatâs higher level does really make a good gearing path. Sure itâs a welfare item, and 14s and 15s are stupid easy. I wouldnât mind if the loot actually leveled up with the difficulty. Maybe 226 items at 20s?
Could be. Or simply 2 extra ilvl for each M+.
So +10s you are getting 213⌠and 226 on +17.
Actually they should scratch the current key system, increase the pump in difficulty for each higher key, and narrow down the overall number of keys.
If we had 5 main difficulties instead of 15⌠it could be like:
+10 gives 226
+8/9 gives 220
+6/7 gives 213
+4/5 gives 206
+2/3 gives 200
But +8/9 should then be the equivalent of current +14/15
And +10 and beyond should be the current equivalent of +18 or maybe more.
And they could also put a weekly cap on gearing through M+, just like they do with Raids.
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You seem to fundamentally misunderstand how Mythic+ loot works.
Mythic+ doesnât give you loot âfrom a higher tierâ. Mythic+ constrains loot of your appropriate tier to the Vault reward (so that it can be gated to 1 option per week). When youâre getting 226 from the Vault, thatâs the level the game has decided you deserve - equivalent to Mythic raid at the low end (in other words, no 233 options). The game then makes sure the gear you get from drops within the dungeon is at a much lower level, since it can be farmed outside of the âweeklyâ lockout. So when youâre at the point where you deserve 226 loot, you will only be getting 207/210 drops from the dungeon drops.
The other side effect of this sort of capping is that unlike raids, where you get raid drops on top of a guaranteed Vault option, Mythic+ is strictly gated to the Vaultâs weekly dispensation at its top end.
After 9.0.5, you may now upgrade some of those dropped items and eventually get them up to 220 after getting Keystone Master FoS, but only in small increments, at a rate limited by Valor gain, which is expected to be capped at 750/week. That means for the most part, a multi-week process just for one item.
TLDR: Mythic+ is already capped on gearing, and at a rate that should be much lower than equivalent raids to boot.
2 Likes
Wait so⌠do you consider that +14 are equivalent to mythic raiding and they deserve the same loot?
If you ask me this is entirely blizzards fault, but for different reasons than what you state.
Stat Itemization from gear in each aspect of the game is either horrible or amazing for a certain class/spec. This will force a lot of fragmentation when it comes to what players do to gear.
For example ww monk or blood dk get amazing stats from pvp gear, that are actually BIS for pve. So why bother raiding.
Another bad change this patch was lowering the total loot drops for raid and removing bonus rolls. Iâve raided since release and Iâm still 220 ilvl after about 100 heroic boss kills and 20 mythic boss kills. All of my loot has come from handouts from my guild or the vault. Iâve gotten almost no loot from raiding, which makes me want to raid less and Iâm sure many share this sentiment.
TLDR
Blizzards fault for reducing loot drops and BIS gear fragmentation between game modes.
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Mythic raiding is a spectrum. There are easy/tankânâspank type freebie bosses, and there are 500+ pull guild killers. Since the former award Mythic raid loot just fine, and the latter tend to award increased ilvl loot that isnât available in any other mode (except often Glad PvP) ⌠thereâs enough grey area that I donât have a problem with it.
For example ww monk or blood dk get amazing stats from pvp gear, that are actually BIS for pve. So why bother raiding.
Thatâs just complete randomness really. They picked Versatility as a stat to make PvP gear based around, and so it happens that for specs for whom Versatility is good, PvP gear is great, and for specs for whom itâs bad, PvP gear is awful and scales poorly. If they hadnât been coming up with stuff at the last minute, and they hadnât happen to choose 1 out of the existing stats, and someone hadnât happened to roll a spec for whom those stats are good, it isnât a thing.
-Raiders get weekly lock outs
-M+ can be run as many times as you want
-We are 5 months into the expansion, most raiders already finished gearing from raids
Obviously if you check raid finder towards the end of the week, there will be less groups forming.
There is a cap on Valor, which is the tool used to upgrade the gear higher then Heroic raiding. +15 keys are harder then heroic raid bosses, so after multiple +15 runs you should be able to upgrade loot past the difficulty of heroic. But you canât upgrade all of your gear this way. You can gear all out in 210 gear, but youâre not going to spam m+ for a week straight and be 220 in all slots.
You do realize that the difficulty per key level changes the higher you get right?
Key levels go from 8% per level, to 20%, to 30% per level.
I mean, you could, but why? Itâs repeatable content for a reason. You also, as others have mentioned, canât fully kit out with Valor. Especially when it comes to weapons. So making the rewards only once a week would almost totally kill it completely. Those of us that push higher keys arenât in it for the loot, but having at least some gold and anima help a little.
You could, but the length of time to do it would be so insane it would be invalid by the time you complete it. Gordofreeman just doesnât seem to understand why the system is in place. While itâs not the best, itâs certainly better than what they are suggesting.
You do realize that this is not a natureâs law and if the devs wanted to tweak it, they could, right?
So raids can be killed by M+ but M+ canât be killed back because you are so much into it? You do realize that the game wasnât developed exclusively FOR you, right?
I pointed the varied degree at which keys get exponentially harder. I can honestly tell you that timing a 20 and above key is way harder than killing the first 5 bosses in Mythic raid.
Raids are suppose to be special, the big focus of a tier. You have a chance at loot every boss. A raid is designed so that it is not a clear one night and forget it. Itâs meant to be something a whole team works at over time. Yes, some do get to the point where it is done in an evening, and props to them for playing that well. Hence why they have access to the best gear for clearing it.
While I would love to see M+ have 233 gear options, itâs not gonna happen, (that I know of). So Iâm not crying or throwing a fit about it.
I donât see where youâre making a connection that M+ is killing raiding. Raiding is still going strong, even at this late in the tier.
Raids arenât remotely dead, and I say this as someone who raids primarily. But I award you 100,000 ironies for this last sentence. Itâs either inspired trolling or an extraordinary lack of self awareness.
4 Likes
Iâll admit, I skimmed right over that line. Thanks for pointing it out. lol
It would be nice if Blizzard would either devote the dev time necessary to M+ to make it a true â3rd optionâ beside raiding and PvP, or communicated clearly to the community that M+ is a smaller section of âPvEâ with raiding at the top of the hierarchy.
Theyâve tried to do both but it just makes people confused and everyone kind of mad.
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Raids get killed because they never change. Sure minor tweaks happen here and there, but the fundamental experience remains the same. The same mechanics, the same difficulty, the same lust timings, the same everything, all the time. Ofcourse itâs going to die, once you progress through the boss, itâs a mindless and un-engaging experience to get more gear.
M+ scales infinitely, so you can always push yourself. High keys are a completely different experience from low keys. Comp matters and strats change depending on comp and affix. Itâs a dynamic environment to challenge yourself endlessly. Thatâs why itâs so popular. Itâs fun, doesnât require gathering a bunch of people, and can be done anytime.
Raids get stale, fast.
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About as many people have KSM as have killed 3/10 mythic bosses. So yes, I do consider them equivalent.
You donât have to be a world first raider or even have CE to get loot from mythic raid bosses. Yet thatâs the comparison some people make to M+