No one gets gear through raids anymore. M+ is just so over the top that there are no groups trying to raid

Please mods, simply delete this thread. I do not have the necessary strenght to argument against the people that you allow to troll on your forums and spit dumb slush from their mouths.

The IQ for this entire community dropped below kidgarten numbers. I’ll never try to argue ever again. Just have the cattle dictate the future of the game.

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With a season of this length, most people have reached their raid goals.

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Most guilds raid for gear? M plus is more high end finishing your last few pieces. I don’t get this post.

Open your game. Go to LFG. Filter raids. Check how many groups are there. Then do the same but filtering M+. Check the difference.

One I’m not home ATM and this time for my region it’s dead for both. 2. Raid require more people need to do 15s to get onpar loot to heroic. I only raid with guild or do aotc runs on alt. Never have issues during prime time. 3. It’s late of the season most done with heroic raid and mythic plus is push week.

That doesn’t show anything.

Raids are norm done at fixed times with your guild or when a good chunk of friends are on they have never really been a thing you just randomly toss up esp this late on when most are working on mythic so lockout is a real factor.

m+ is made to be done unlimited amount of times in a week with a small group. As such m+ unlike raids is often puged. Do yes there will be a signifincant amount more m+ than raids esp if talking at non common raid times. Even at common raid times raids will be looking only to fill a few slots that there guild or group of freinds did not fill. Unlike m+ that is often one person looking for a entire group of pugs.

Its rare to see raids of full pugs and when that happens they don’t get to far even AOTC groups often wont kill donny still if largely pugs as a price example.

As such you will need something much better to show that people are not raiding your example is the EXPECTED result when people ARE raiding not what you are suggesting.

You probably never heard of pugs right?

You should go read that again I specifically mentioned pugs in my post and my post is vary clear on pugs. Raid are rarly puged people only really make raids when they have other in there group to join with them as a core. Than they may pug a few extra slots to get them up to the number needed. Unlike m+ where people pug from the start. This as said vasyly limited the amount of raid groups in the finder. While the simple fact raids take more slots so you wont make one when you are short on time/late at night or any time where people are not likly to play as not worth the effort to get one going at that time. Esp as mythic is where most people are working on now days this means a pug that dose not do well and dose not do it in one sitting is not likly to work.

Your example as said is showing the EXACT expected result for when people are raiding, a ton more m+ groups as m+ is what people pug. Raids are not. Raids only pug select missing spots and are done with your guild or group of freinds at the core. This causes less raid groups to be needed as 1 group give the same result of 4 groups (covers 20 people) WHILE filling your vault in that single raid unlike m+ needs 10x as such 40 groups rather than one. As such you will expect at least 40x the m+ groups. In fact its vastly more as more raids are guild only than m+ groups being guild only for vault filling.

Pugs are as common as dust. It is part of wow’s culture.
Also, Raids were always kept alive cuz they had the gear drops, the bis, etc.
Nowadays people do raids only for achievements.
This is by itself wrong.

Maybe more people are raiding with guilds. I have guild mates who raid on 2 different teams and a couple that pug normal CN (for transmog) since we don’t run it.

If you want the highest gear? M+ is obviously the way to go. I raid because I enjoy raiding. The gear drops are helpful to completion obviously. But the reason there may be less pugs is also the flexibility - no need to find 25 players to do heroic.

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Pugs are as common as expected. Your example dose NOT show what you claimed of people not running raids for gear they 100% ARE. I myself have 2 items in heroic still to get that are BETTER than any option I can get in m+ even at 226. While in mythic there is still quite a number of items to get. While m+ outside of getting vault (and vault is not likly to drop those slots with no upgrades in awhile from it) there is nothing at all I can get other than one slot I can get and upgrade to 220 for a diff so small its not worth talking about.

People on avg are higher ilvl than 213 ilvl gear at this point, as such they don’t raid heroic this is EXACTLY the result blizzard and people where asking for. They wanted to NOT have to raid old content/difficulty for ever in a tier to get a rare change to titanforge to something usefull. People wanted to be able to get there bis and loot and move onto harder content.

This is exactly what happened the avg person is done with heroic this is no different than the a person being done with m8s. You see far fewer fewer low end groups in m8 than in m14 to fill the vault.

That is not only expected result it is the WANTED result. People do not want to have to run every raid on lfr normal heroic and mythic for a change to get x trinket upgraded as each gives a titan forge chance.

As such what you have seen in old xpacs is NOT something even remotly relevent today as a change that was ASKED FOR was done and is a good change.

What matters is the diff between m+ and raids you claimed no one geared via raids any more NOT that there was less raids there is a MASSIVE difference between those statments. Yes there is less raids never said overwise that was a intetfull and asked for change.

People DO still gear from raids, I myself have about half my gear from raids. You just have to raid the correct difficulty that brings me back to EXACTLY what I said above. People are raiding MYTHIC right now not heroic not normal. As such you see MYTHIC raid groups and NO they do not pug outside of a few slots at best.

People do not go and make a alt raid for there alts either with 100% pugs or alot of pugs they go with there guildys or friends this again makes little to no pug slots as gets them more lot faster once again people ARE gearing from raiding unlike you claimed.

Never once was a claim that there was not less raids made vs other Xpacs, as that point is irrelevant to your statement. People ARE gearing via raids and just as much as before. People just gear with there guild and freinds when raiding NOT puging more than a few slots. While they FINISH gearing in lower diffs exactly as people want to be and move on to higher diffs. So yes there is less groups for lower diffs this is the expected and WANTED result.

Are you new to wow? How long have you been playin?
Pugging raids are as common as dust. Every old player knows that.
Thing is: M+ asphyxiated it. And it was fine, cuz if there is public to that, there is no problem with it.
But the buffs to M+ gearing helped to totally kill raids.

I been playing since TBC.

Again do lean to read. Never once said puged raids where not uncommon its in fact EXACTLY what I said. But as said that point dose NOT in any way shape or fourm provide evidence or support to your claim of people don’t gear from raids. They have nothing to do with each other. People don’t pug raids sine its not worth to pug a raid when you can do with your guild far faster and easier.

Raiding is not anywhere near killed of its in fact as healthy as it ever has been. Raiding was made as a ways to play with your guild and group of friends and are still done at a quite healthy level now. It is not made to be pug friendly esp at the mythic level that we are talking about (as people are past 213-220 avg ilvl for heroic). While yes some guilds are now on break also with the ptr out so they have met there goals and are preping for next tier and not burning out there raiders. This is normal and expected also, while being quite healthy.

Your comment and thread is NOT about raids being uncommon thou its about peopl;e NOT gearing from raids this is 100% incorrect. People ARE gearing from raids and quite a bit. Even with the buffs to m+ raids remain one of the best options to increase your gearing speed esp for those that like raiding.

M+ is NOT a good and effective way to get 226 gear. Its great at getting you 220 gear but getting your last slots at 226 via the vault is asking for rng to favor you and speaking from experience have had quite bad luck with getting those last slots. While raiding I have rather good odds to fill many of those slots. While some slots such as trinkets like SLGs I still need from heroic and is better than any m+ option even at 226 for what it dose.

The person here that is missing the point of this thread is YOU.

You are claiming people don’t gear from raids this is 100% incorrect. Yes m+ is a better way to gear at first to get your avg ilvl to 220 and slightly beyond. But that was NEVER agrued otherwise. Your comment is NOT about what is better your comment is that people DON"T gear from raiding which is NOT true.

ONLY a new player would think players STOP doing other content just since one content is better for gearing with a rather significant limit on gearing (10 runs a week than it sucks for more gear) when there is another content that they can do to significantly increase there odds of gear. People DO gear from raids as not only can you gear from raids along side m+ it SIGNIFICANTLY increases your odds of getting gear in fact can be faster with the right group. Assuming you are once again as said running the correct levle of content, for a person aiming for 226 from m+ this means mythic raiding.

Figure of speech. Knows it?

The raid has been out for 5 months mate. Most people have cleared it and aren’t interested in farming it.

Mythic+ continues to be a challenge for ever.

That’s the problem I’m addressing.

  1. You are Alliance
  2. Both methods are still crap for gearing
  3. The reason there’s nobody trying to raid now is because the content is old.
  4. 9.1 should’ve come out already.

Raiding is by far the fastest and most efficient way to gear.

I geared almost entirely through raiding

i hated when 10mans competed with 25mans.

i didn’t think we’d have 5mans compete with 20mans…