You’re right. Give all gear the same system as the new pvp stuff. Don’t force people into content they don’t like.
Just for clarity, items that drop in m+ should have the edge in m+.
It literally got nerfed this expansion lmao
Why is this a problem at all?
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I have only 2 pieces of gear from the raid I wear. Everything else I got from PvP or the GV.
The way it is now is that people raid for fun and not for gear.
There’s definitely a gearing and motivation problem with raids atm as its easily the worst way to outfit your character.
It’s more of a epeen flex than anything else. The raids are VERY tightly tuned (especially by the last third of heroic onwards) and time consuming. They take a lot of effort and time and… the rewards are far worse than a similar effort spent in mythic+ or pvp.
Raiding often feels like the crown jewel of Blizzards patches - THE big thing we’re meant to be excited about. Unfortunately, the gearing is probably the most archaic and ends up being the least rewarding. It’s not surprising less and less people are doing it.
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It’s not though. It’s just that people who are bad at M+ are comparing heroic raids to M+.
If you do mythic raids then you will get better gear than someone who does M+. If you do heroic raids then why should you expect to get gear that’s as good as you get from more difficult content?
It’s more of a epeen flex than anything else. The raids are VERY tightly tuned (especially by the last third of heroic onwards) and time consuming.
They are not very tightly tuned though. We cleared heroic Nathria last night with multiple people doing less than 3k DPS on boss fights. Those same people would not be able to time a +14 key.
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I’m 100% sure I won’t be able to get CE through pugs so I’m not going to bother with Mythic. Heroic gives mostly 213 so I don’t benefit from running that.
If you’re comparing the number of raid groups vs mythic plus groups in the pug tab, that’s where the issue is coming from. There are plenty of guilds raiding at all levels, but mythic plus is much easier to pug since you only need five.
You don’t need to get CE to get mythic raid gear though.
That’s true, for me though the only reason I play is to collect the achievements
I will just wait three expansions to clear mythic 
PUG raiding is easier now than it has ever been.
Are you really comparing 3k dps on single target with M+ DPS?
lol…
+14 are very easy to complete. Don’t pretend they are not.
Plus, the vault rewards you with 226 for mere completion, not timing.
Why are you trying to push a lie?
And that should be addressed and taken as a natural problem that needs fixing.
Are you trolling?
Just because something is beyond your understandment doesn’t mean it is trolling.
The one trolling here, presenting 0 arguments and trying to instigate a conflict here is you. You are clearly disrupting the thread’s purpose. Please, stop posting. Also, I’m reporting you.
You wanna try that again, chief?
Beyond your understanding.
Not easy to be multilingual. Sometimes you mix up few words. But surely is easy to be a toxic trolling spam-loweffort-poster.
Of course! That’s what drives this whole forum! 
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I stopped posting on General Discussions thinking I would be free from it… sems like the problem is actually the “gaming community” itself.
Not for the people pulling 3k on a raid boss in 220 gear.
If you put 5 of those people into a +15, they wouldn’t finish it, let alone in time. But they can kill heroic raid bosses because they are tuned to allow you to carry half the raid.
A very large percentage of heroic raiders have never done a +14/+15.
And what exactly would you suggest needs to be fixed? Or more so, how would you fix it?
A nice step would be to make raiding vault rewards give you gear that has ilvl from the next tier.
So killing 3 bosses at heroic would give you a piece of mythic raid.
To make it more even with M+.
I do easy +10 to +14 on my alts and get easy 226. That contrasts too hard with gearing through raid.
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