That’s the one example that comes to mind, and I remember having to report that same person multiple times for continuing to do that. I will say that the total number of serious flags I’ve made is in the single digits.
hey, remember how hammers have morals?
2 Likes
Many of the arguments I’ve seen from the anti-ML crowd in this thread read the same as examples on a list of logical fallacies.
“Once master loot comes back, all guilds will be using it and there won’t be any PL guilds left, then I will be stolen from again, then everyone will start to quit”
Name that fallacy
False premise fallacy, combined with the Bandwagon Fallacy.
Edit: there is also a bit of the special pleading fallacy thrown in to arrive at said false premise.
“Master loot is immoral because bad people use it”
“Anyone who wants ML back is clearly obsessed with controlling people”
This one actually has a funny name: The Texas Sharpshooter fallacy.
I’m not actually sure of the name, but I would classify this as reverse implication ( x implies y is not the same as y implies x)
Edit: Both of these are actually a combination of ad hominem, and Texas Sharpshooter.
who would have thought a game would come from the “no masterloot please” thread.
2 Likes
No it isn’t.
I have no choice but to use PL. How is that consensual?
No it won’t (precident being that it didn’t in legion). See unlike the PL only crowd we don’t mind if groups we are not involved in do things that we don’t personally want to do because we recognise that it’s none of our damn business.
A bit weird to ask where they went to school and what papers they took…
Pretty sure it’s against ToS to ask for real life info of people on the forums but I could be wrong.
If it isn’t then it’s just weird and a bit creepy.
Haha Yea. I think we understand the topic so much more than them that if we were to play devil’s advocate we could make the arguement against much better than they ever have haha.
For one I certainly would be trying to use the arguement of a hammer is moral and master loot isn’t
1 Like
I mean the quotes show his claims… making claim about a subject and not having the knowledge or education to back it up, doesn’t bode well for their argument.
There is very little that isn’t subjective in the entire discussion… I tend to agree with the others, who tear down ML… because as Bipsie stated, ML is immoral, you’re leaving the power and items in the hands of a single person, that’s not fair to the group as a whole. PLNR is just fair. No restrictions, drops are randomly divided… that is like the epitome of fair.
Because no one get’s ninja’d, no one get’s told they aren’t allowed to roll for an item, no trial abuse and there is no power being handed to a single person.
1 Like
I enjoyed reading your post as the way you phrased things made me laugh a bit - it sounded EXACTLY they way I had been thinking about it!
ML is toxic af and just serves to empower raid leaders/gms and their officers. As soon as the 10/25 split was formalized in Cata, my guilds officers, raid leader and a SELECT group of their friends (many of whom sucked) began funneling gear from the 25 man group into the people they planned to KILL MOST OF THE GUILD with so they could switch to 10 man raiding (tankspot still walked the earth and it’s terrible advice was aimed at 10 man and cheesing mechanics). These people would go so far as to STEAL people from a second 10 man group under the logic that “we’re the progressive raiding group” so when they’d get stuck on boss for a couple weeks (because they were mediocre at best) they’d essentially just force someone ahead of them to play with them under pain of gkick.
I warned everyone what they were doing, but no one listened until they officially announced they weren’t doing 25 man anymore and people could “stay and contribute to the 10 man group for a chance to get in” (this was a lie - they just wanted people to fish and pick herbs for them). Having a lot of influence myself, I was able to convince almost everyone to abandon the guild, and it collapsed several months later.
1 Like
I would still love to know how they consider it “consensual” when everyone in the game is forced to use it. That’s their words though not yours so that a side…
How is this different than rc loot counsel is atm? My guild anything that is tradeable goes to loot counsel already anyway how is that different?
I joined that guild with the knowledge of how they do loot having talked to the GM and raid leader before I joined the guild and I specifically asked them how they did it. I liked the sound of their answer so I joined the guild. If I didn’t like how they did it I wouldn’t have joined. If I joined and they didn’t do it like they said they would I would also leave which would screw up raid progression for them.
Strangely enough another example of loot issues in cata. Havnt seen anyone talk about any from legion yet still…
Here you go @bloodypaws add this to your tally.
I never said it was consensual… I said it was FAIR. I don’t care how people feel at the end of the day… I want EVERYONE to get the FAIR choice. Where EVERYONE get’s a shot.
How is it different? It’s up to people to decide who get’s what… instead of just doing it randomly. Power = Corruption.
That is your personal experience.
To be fair the game is in decline compared to the glory days. But that has nothing to do with loot…or does it? 
Bring back Master Loot 100% The current looting system is awful.
So, the top end world first guilds prefer PL to ML to gear up more efficiently.
Now TF can come back if there is some kind of system change to allow trading of gear.
This isn’t a loot method problem.
yep. which is why I asked Bipsie why they said "it is
"
And why I said
I asked
How is ML different than RC loot counsel with regards to
And it would be anyone elses too if they wanted it to be.
1 Like
and it should never be… fair > consensual.
PL isn’t even fair.
It’s funny you don’t even know what RC loot council is.
I find it extremely hypocritical that you preach about being “fair” yet are 100% ok pushing your values and forcing people to systems you deem “fairL
2 Likes
What if its what they want? They shouldn’t get to have what they want because you don’t want to have it for yourself? What makes your opinion so special?