No mage changes in the PTR? really?

Its a game. The point is just having fun.

I dont play the skyrim for the challenge or improving my skills. Nor do i play the sims for it. Or spyro.

I dont do challenging content because i dont enjoy it. Theres lots of stuff to find rewarding outside of that. But when the game gets balanced around talents and stuff i dont use, it does affect my experience as well.

Fortunately other than nerfs to my defenses, im actually getting buffs atm.

The whole thing i was trying to say in this thread was that if the top end players are doing crazy damage by using talents that non top end players dont use, but theyre doing too much damage
 dont nerf the abilities everyone uses

Melee is outperforming in Mythic + right now, yes. However that is not at every effort nor skill level.

Because they’re talking to a different person who thinks Mythic raiding is high level content in terms of difficulty and that heroic is mid level.

When in reality Heroic is high level content for most players and mythic is not touched by the majority of players until late in an expansion if at all.

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Snozay was right about that. You’re conflating tiers of difficulty for content with user interaction with said difficulties. The tiers are relative to themselves, not relative to the players.

This person gets it.

Then you aren’t entitled to perform at the top level.

And that’s fine. It still doesn’t make normal. Not entry level or heroic not mid level.

No. They’re wrong because the majority of this player base does not touch or play mythics on launch, and most groups do not make it to heroics.

Yes.

This is what I’m talking about; you’re conflating tiers with player interaction.

Even including LFR, Heroic is mid-tier content.

LFR < Normal < Heroic < Mythic

It’s really that simple.

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Ice Spider has entered the chat.

I can think of 2, MAYBE 3, good ranged fights in current raid.

You play a BM hunter.

That fight shouldn’t affect you AT all.

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That you can think of even one demolishes any idea that melee is inherently easier.

But every class and spec is perfectly fine playing normal or even heroic raid. (Not sure on heroic not much of a raider) but normal for sure. The only problem I see is groups not inviting certain classes/specs cuz they see some stupid tierlist.

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I mean if you’re thinking with a monkey’s brain and say both normal and heroic are mid difficulty because they are in between the highest and lowest difficulty tiers, sure.

If you think about player engagement, and what players actually play, mythics are largely inaccessable or untouched by people who play this game. They’re balanced that way so that world first races can be entertainment.

By your logic BDK is a mid tier tank.

In actuality, PWar and BDK are both top tier, but one of them is extra top tier.

Challenging for you doesn’t equal actual challenging content.

Actually mine is actually based on reality not my opinion.

I actually do think like a game designer. You’re the one that can’t even figure out the difference between what is actually mid level content.

I wouldn’t suggest getting into barely subtle ad hominem with me, especially when you’re the one making stretches and doing mental gymnastics to prove a point that is mostly irrelevant to the discussion anyway.

Even if this is true, it doesn’t change the fact that Mythic is the top end content.

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I never said it was easier. I said it was better performing in current content due to mechanics.

This is why we have words like mean, median, and mode. You can break it down much more than ‘mid’ and no, by my logic I’ve made no claim about BDK whatsoever.

Nobody disagreed with this. I disagreed with current heroics being considered mid tier difficulty when Razagath is one of the more difficult bosses in wow history and with the majority of flex guilds only having access to playing heroic through the sheer logistics of stat checks, scheduling, and server limitations.

Then you necessarily agree that Heroic is mid, at worst mid-high (if you want to call Normal mid-low) content.

I did not ignore the rest of your post. It’s just contradictory to what I quoted.