I can use the valor I get from my callings on M0 gear. I can log in for 40m and do a heroic. I have to set aside time and find a group for M0.
I don’t always want to have to personally find a group for things for it to have any sort of value. There’s no reason M0 can’t be in a queue, or that the valor system can’t include heroic dungeon gear.
LFD is and has been a very important feature for the way I’m allowed to play, and removing value from it has put this game in a horrible place for me.
Also, I really miss having my own challenges to work on solo or with a friend or two. Things like horrific visions and the mage tower were amazing content for me. Now, all I feel like I have in the game is Korthia. It stinks.
Like I said above, it feels like they ruined the rest of the game to make M+ feel more appealing than it actually is, without consideration of how other people enjoyed the game previously.
This game hasn’t been this heavily dependent on manually forming groups since 2008. It’s weird that they went back to this.
I’d give this one a hardy no. The timer is the only thing that makes M+ worthwhile, or remotely a challenge. If I absolutely had to take a middle ground stance, I’d say no timer up to +10 and even that is probably pushing it, as you should know the mechanics and have a basic grasp of what your character should be doing in the dungeon.
I have literally done the whole grind from nothing to being 2084 rating (io hasn’t updated it yet). I’ll be 2100 this week. If anything people need to show a little humility and ask those outperforming them what they can tighten up to get better performance. I had another fury warrior that queue’d up in the same depths run as me, asked him what I can do to improve and he actually gave me the time of day. Practiced up on some lower keys, hopped into a 17 and boom, timed with ease and no deaths.
Keystone Master, and all the achievements that follow SHOULD be barred from those that don’t want to put in the effort to reach them. The achievement and the mount are literally the only thing that keeps people pushing.
The thing I would like to see removed is the valor cap, and that’s only because we are this far into the season. Let people gear, let people raid, let people enjoy the game. If people want to run twenty dungeons to get a 3ilvl increase on a piece of gear, let them.
Instead of bringing the difficulty down, they just need to expand the reward structure.
I’d be happy with the content that is currently queueable if it provided anything worthwhile. But it doesn’t.
M+ shouldn’t feel like exclusively rewarding content outside of raid, IMO. Makes the game feel really small when you can’t commit to this strict environment.
I honestly can’t fathom people saying they don’t commit to M+. You can’t carve out a 30 minute chunk of game-time ever, any point, for any reason?
I’ve seen some of the absolute dregs of the player-base in these dumpster keys while working on my alt and unless someone is anti-good (beyond bad, so bad they try to drag everyone down with them) they can not only do the content, but also make time. And even when it goes to %%%% with 3+ complete party wipes and we don’t make time, it still gives gear, it still give Valor, it still fills Vault.
WoW as a game does not benefit from breaking the game design to appeal to tourists. It benefits from converting tourists to consistent players.
I’ll stop my post there because I don’t really want to get too aggro about this, but honestly, Flexseal’s mindset is "anti-WoW’. It’s simply wrong. I don’t get why he just keeps posting this nonsense - he can make the time to post for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours a day but he can’t join a M+ group? I don’t believe it.
You don’t just log in and jump right into a M+. You’re forgetting the time it takes to find a group, and the hope that the group sticks together.
Dude, my mindset has been the state of the game from 2008 until Shadowlands. This is the first expansion since the introduction of LFD and eventually LFR that the only valuable content comes from premade groups.
Yeah, Shadowlands has a lot to do, but it also has no real reason to do it. Outside of Korthia there is nothing in this game that I feel like I have anything to benefit from. Maybe I can run 4 timewalking dungeons and hope the single random piece of gear is good?
The only time I’ve been able to run M+ is when my friends can all get together to run one. It’s rare. I can’t just sit in LFG and apply to keys, or hope that people of the appropriate roles will join mine and stick together to finish it in an average play session.
M+ was designed for two types of people. Those that have constant groups to run them, or those that can sit in the game and do nothing for lengthy periods of time while their group fills.
At least with LFR/LFD I can log on and get into something at a reasonable pace with my healer queue, and I never have to worry about it stopping mid run without anything to show for the time I already invested.
This comparison only works for the progression player. I’m not a group progression player. I’m a casual player who sometimes runs group content if the stars align and all of my friends of the appropriate roles can team up for something.
Shadowlands locking all reasonable rewards behind manually organized group content feels draconian in the modern era of gaming. Especially when they’re coming off of expansions that had rewarding solo challenges and solo queue content.
So then I state again. Why not start the timer /Difficult part at 16, let everyone get maxed gear, then try for difficult achievements. Push Master up to key 25+ and let player measure their E peens all day long. But as a scrub I can work to getting max gear, and just never bas as awesome as you 35ers. Grats to you and Kudos ( no joke honestly good job), but I don’t have to do it. I pay my $ and grind my gear. You pay your money and work at hard stuff, all are happy. Or just detach gear from rating.
Agreed. I honestly feel ostracized in Shadowlands, like the game is actively trying to make me feel bad for not having legions of friends and not being a hyper-skilled and hyper-competitive player.
and why can’t you do that by timing lower keys and working your way up? why is it only possible for you to gear up if your vault contains 252s every week?
The top world firsters can beat heroic raids in blues, most people can’t.
Can I clear 15’s with a bit of practice, yes I am sure I can. But I would love to go with people who can’t and do easier versions and get valor to upgrade gear.
Ideally that would be case, but it’s so hard to find a group of inclusive and forgiving people to play with. The community will always pick the higher io, the higher ilvl, the meta class, over someone like me. Folks here are also extremely unforgiving of mistakes and intolerant of folks learning that they’ll leave at the drop of a hat, which kind of makes it impossible to learn, progress, and work your way up.
I used to play with a druid who said the class was too immobile to move easily out of obstacles. Those are the ones I would like to play with and help slowly gear up. Those who don’t understand the class, and do 1/4 the dps of the top. They are usually some of the sweetest people and super kind and they are also never going to time anything over a 3.
