Good Lord. I am away for 5 months and this is still going on?
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I didnât really get that impression myself aside from their somewhat reduced presence in already-existing Vanilla questing zones, which is quite similar to what befell the Draenei in the Alliance as a byproduct of their BC introduction. Granted, I leveled my Horde character in WoD.
Iâm certainly not trying to undermine your player fantasy. Thatâs the bill of goods that Blizzard sold you before you rolled the character (which itself I want to put a pin in), and no one should be taking that away. But Iâve also explained my difficulties with the figure by now.
Not explicitly, no - but the argumentation is pretty clear and the âfirst timeâ meme - which is used to make fun of someone complaining about something that the person who makes the meme feels like some other group has gone through before - evidences that. Itâs also an extremely common argument, and tactic to try and get Night Elf players to stop raising their concerns.
Weâve had eleven years of bad content - it wasnât just BFA, where the race was repeatedly humiliated at the hands of your faction in a manner that none of us could stop because Blizzard willed it. I respect that weâre not the only ones with issues, but we do have a rather unique issue that your side of the faction divide in particular likes to pretend isnât happening.
You donât know that. No one knows which way or the other Ashenvale is, and anyone who claims otherwise is letting their headcanon get ahead of the fact pattern.
Game canon rules unless specifically contravened by Word of God. As described in âA Good Warâ Saurfangâs forces did not remain in Ashenvale but moved into Darkshore as Ashenvale was not the objective, simply something in the way.
The person whoâs let their headcanon run amuck is the one with the insatiable need to interpret everything as part of a personal persecution complex.
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The âWoe is Me Squadâ will never stop beating this dead zhevra.
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Iâm aware that they moved through it, and Iâm aware of the mission tables. However, the Darkshore warfront implies a logistical situation that suggests that the Horde was able to move supplies there without significant problems. Nathanos also described it as a stronghold. Following that, the Horde were again forced to defend Orgrimmar, which, going the other direction, doesnât suggest a strong incentive for loyalist forces to remain there. We also donât know what the council has done since.
Thereâs too much information in flux, sorry. As for something about a persecution complex, youâre starting to sound like you resemble an accusation.
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Trust me, I keep an eye out for blood elf NPCs, and the only core Horde race I see less often as background soldiers are the Pandaren. Background blood elf NPCs are uncommon unless the content is specifically led by blood elf characters, such as the Horde campaign on the Isle of Thunder. Granted, the fact that tons of players choose to play Blood Elves obscures this a bit, but as NPCs theyâre not that common. Iâm not trying to argue that theyâre worse off than other races, just that they arenât as omnipresent in the story as their playerbase might suggest.
Good, then weâre in agreement on that point. My point is that the specific casualty figure has been used in the current patch as part of content involving Kaelâthas. The theme of âwe were on the brink of extinction but survived despite our foesâ best effortsâ is also a major part of the heritage armor quest, along with honoring the catastrophic casualties. As you say, thatâs the bill of goods sold to anyone who chooses to play a Blood Elf, and this more recent content has further developed that. Retconning the percentage of casualties now would undermine that development. I completely understand why Kaldorei fans wouldnât want to see the same sort of story happen to their characters, because thatâs not what you wanted to play when you chose to play a Night Elf. For Blood Elves, itâs been there since their introduction to WoW, so itâs baked into their character fantasy as part of the appeal. Iâm honestly starting to wonder if that might be a small part of the root conflict between Night Elf fans and Blood Elf fans in these arguments about Teldrassil; the same sort of event that rightfully angers Night Elf players who were drawn to their power as a faction is a key part of what made the Blood Elves appealing to their players.
Ethrielâs comment about Blizzard taking away Night Elves as a playable race was extreme. Pointing that out by using the existence of the Blood Elves as a playable race is not the same as arguing that Night Elf fans shouldnât be concerned about Blizzardâs incredibly disappointing handling of all things Kaldorei from the War of Thorns onward. I certainly do not subscribe to that argument, and I did not interpret Aurirelâs response to Ethrielâs specific claim about removing playable Night Elves to fit that argument either.
I canât speak for Drahliana, but for my own taste and as someone with two hunter alts, any hunter-appropriate mail set that doesnât look like I skinned something and crawled inside is going to be ranked in the top half of transmogs I can wear. No shame to those who enjoy that, itâs just not my thing. As the Darkshore mail set fits those parameters, it is therefore not bad in my opinion. Itâs still not a substitute for proper heritage armor, though, and I do hope Blizzard finishes up the heritage armor sets sooner rather than later for the sake of everyone who hasnât gotten them yet. Unfortunately I do feel like Night Elves, along with Forsaken, Humans, and Orcs will probably get theirs last specifically because of the existence of the warfront sets, and thatâs a shame.
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And it will go on until things are settled properly. You can count on that. Whether that will ever happen is a different question entirely.
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Iâm pretty sure that Blizzardâs idea of Night Elf heritage armor is going to be the classic Bikini set from the Vanilla cinematic⌠so Iâm not looking that forward to it.
But that would fit the race. Instead, if there was a heritage armor, it would be something very bulky and out of place for Night Elves. If Blizz actually created a heritage armor for Night Elves, the classic cinematic armor wouldâve been good.
Iâd expect something ridiculous like this:
Which they already kind of made, as thatâs basically the armor that a bunch of archer NPCâs were wearing in the War of Thorns scenarios.
ItâŚreally looked silly in-game. The Vanilla cinematic kinda makes the concept work visually with the nature of the overall prerendered aesthetic allowing for it to be properly contoured rather than just a flat texture (and it was arguably supposed to represent a âplayerâ druid in special armor anyway, rather than just a random night elf in traditional Sentinel garb), but on the player models it just looked like an army of night elves awkwardly standing around in non-functional underwear that was drawn onto them and didnât fit properly.
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I always figured the ideal nelf and orc heritage armor set would be clicking âhide armorâ on most of your transmog slots. 
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God, you are annoying
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Iâm running my Light-Froged Draenei Warrior through that Warfront specifically to collect that set.
For saying what happens in the story and not accepting this bs? lol
You do the same 
on reddit and (I bet) in real life too. Itâs insufferable. Especially considering that most of what you say is headcanon.
I was about to reply that the real hope here would be that weâd get a questline with good content.
Then I remembered Seeds of Faith.
For those who donât remember, there were a bunch of leader stories that came out during the Cataclysm era exploring some of the things that were going on at the time. One of the bigger things - the elephant in the room if you ask me - was the Hordeâs invasion of Ashenvale, which, rather than just giving the Horde more content in an already contested zone, chose to do so in a way that made them look dominant, even though the Night Elves canonically won the fights there. These were the days when the âWait and Seeâ crowd were filling my ear with all kinds of overoptimistic predictions about how weâd one day hit back and how the wonderful new phasing technology meant that in future patches, the wins we allegedly got would be shown as new quests took the place of the old ones.
Itâs been eleven years, Iâm still waiting to hit back over that.
Anyway, I figured that, especially because other leader short stories addressed things like the war, then clearly this was an area where either Tyrande or Malfurion would have to in some way grapple with it. Instead, we were handed a forgettable, nothingburger short story about Feathermoon Stronghold, Shandris having to be rescued by Tyrande from it, and of Malfurion having to come to both of their aid at the end after he previously was somewhat aloof to the idea.
Or at least thatâs what I remember. I canât be bothered to look it up because to me it was a huge disappointment. Itâs not just that they found a way to portray more losing situations (recall that Feathermoon Stronghold was moved in Cataclysm, this would be because Naga overran the old one) - but that they sidestepped the Horde invasion that I wanted more action against entirely. I would think that people pining for a Night Elf heritage quest would want something like that, or at least something that doesnât concentrate on yet more loss and tragedy (thatâs also a bat theyâve been hitting us with for eleven years) - but, as much as I have been trying lately to not simply give in to blunt pessimism here, theyâre not going to get it.
While Iâm going down memory lane here - Iâm going to slightly pivot. Because as much as I disagree with the âstone cold certaintyâ of Ethrielâs posts, thereâs something I might want to highlight so long as weâre talking about pessimism. I want to share some initial impressions that I grabbed at the time that the War of the Thorns was coming out.
http^s://forums.scrollsoflore.com/showpost.php?p=1620764&postcount=20
(By the way, Fojar is Ainhin - no, his argumentation hasnât changed in the past few years)
This illustrates the issue with responding to extreme pessimism where Night Elf fans are concerned. I can say with certainty now that the people that I quoted were absolutely and certainly right, and the people who said that it would be motivation for an eventual revenge were wrong.
As terrible as it is, it does kind of make me feel vindicated.
(Content warning: Language)
But now that weâve established that: people have thrown around the word âpersecution complexâ or other such nonsense to describe such pessimism, but the hurdle you have to get over here is that in general terms, the pessimists have a much better track record than the optimists on this point (not that this wasnât already the case when BFA started). I think the ball is in your court at this point to demonstrate why theyâre wrong, instead of regarding them as wrong by default, treating them as insane, or otherwise failing to address the demoralization that acts as a root cause to this.
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give 1 example.
Statements on the proportions of Night Elves killed or obliterated in the Maw are two. Despite what I just said, you do, as I said, introduce a layer of stone-cold certainty to things that the canon doesnât actually support, and those are not predictions but statements purporting to represent facts.
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You have yet to prove me wrong, and as long as my statements havenât been proven otherwise, we only have the ingame numbers as a reference. As for the Night Elves killed, how many do you expect to be alive after their 3 zones were wiped on top of there being âfar too fewâ Night Elves left? Exactly, barely any.
Furthermore, we also know that the Night Elf souls are specifically at the place where the jailer obliterates souls.
Yes I have, and we have had this conversation on Elegy already. We discussed previously that the âfar too fewâ comment was an in-the-moment reaction from Anduin, who was in no position to know enough to make that statement. We discussed the pictures depicting the evacuation and the text describing its scale. We discussed that the army was largely intact based on the questing and the books. These are points we have absolutely gone over, and Iâm not going to drop them.
Ardenwealdâs questing, further, if you want to get persnickety about counting the number that were in the amalgam versus the number that are released from the Maw, isnât in your favor either. Stop overreaching with these claims.
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