Mechanical scream. Substitute a comparison between the fantasy of the night elves and the Horde.
Remember. This topic is dedicated to the justice of the kal’dorai.
1 Like
Zarrin doesn’t respond to responses to his claims. You can point out his blatant and repeated use of lies, falsehoods, and tactically deployed logical fallacies, and he’ll get mad at you for doing so. He’s not interested in a debate, he’s interested in shooting down the suggestions and aspirations of people who like things that he doesn’t like, and doesn’t much care for whether his attempts to do so are logically sound, fair, or based in fact.
1 Like
Were you or were you not one of the posters that claimed that the Night Elves should have been supreme in Ashenvale? That Blizaard screwed them over by removing the sort of “third faction” status they had prior to Malfurion’s detonation of Nordrassil?
4 Likes
For what it’s worth, the same ratio is mentioned in Elegy. It’s on page 31 of Elegy and page 25 of A Good War. But yes, those are troop ratios, not kill ratios.
EDIT: I found it. See this thread:
I’m confused by your last sentence; are we talking WoT only, or any art? Because if the latter, then surely the “Terror of Darkshore” video should count.
3 Likes
Depends on what you mean by this - and I say that because I see a rhetorical trap being laid.
I regard Warcraft’s faction system as taking the bones of four factions and putting them into two. I believe that the Night Elves and the Forsaken respectively had the favorable geographic position to amass allies and oppose the Western Horde and the Eastern Alliance respectively, enough that they can force a stalemate and protect their position.
But if you’re going to backslide into trying to ask me about the War of the Thorns, I am going to once again reject that framing as a default.
Edit:
It does, but it’s not enough. There was too much about that entire scenario that was going to make it “not enough”, especially after going through eleven years of humiliation which was of the same, but a highly intensified character in BFA.
Edit: It’s eleven years now, it was less then. Regardless, in addition to the wounds of Cataclsym never being addressed, BFA tore open such a hole that one cinematic just wasn’t going to do it.
2 Likes
On the subject of WoW art.
I love how there’s supposed to be some kind of weak comparison between Battle for Dazar’alor and Rastakhan’s death(s), and the burning of Teldrassil.
There’s so much artwork of Teld, and art of characters being upset about Teld. Yet the comparison of BoD. I can’t find any art whatsoever depicting Rastakhan’s death, and like maybe 3 pieces of art about him period(this apparently ‘beloved’ missed opportunity character). Yet they’re supposed to be equivalent lol
4 Likes
I never really got that one. Rastakhan didn’t even all that much like the Horde PC. I’ve never seen anyone lament his passing and how much they miss him as a NPC.
He was marked for replacement from the moment we met him; pretty sure everyone knew that. He represented the an old way of thinking, a man who pined for a global troll empire (under him) and had lived several times longer than any troll was meant to.
I don’t think Rastakhan’s death by itself was the point - no more than the deaths of an unnamed number of NPCs at Teldrassil.
The point was that the Alliance (or more appropriately, the Eastern part of it) kicked the door down and humiliated the Zandalari Trolls (right after Blizzard tried to get people invested enough to play one) in one of the most in-your-face ways possible, and they did it completely on screen.
2 Likes
This might be a weird opinion but I felt like on a story level, I wasn’t “allowed” to feel too bad about Rastakhan’s death. It came in the wake of the horde starting a second faction war with an elaborate atrocity, knowing that he was most likely going to kick the bucket just because of Talanji’s existence, and then Blizzard going the extra mile to make the horde take another shot at Kul’tiras to really drive home that the BoD raid is a deserved counterattack before the alliance pats themselves on the back for being so un-hordelike.
I guess Talanji’s meant to be some sort of Genn analogue about going crazy in wanting revenge for her family member but everything built up around it preemptively sapped all interest.
7 Likes
That’s pretty strange. The Alliance were certainly ‘allowed’ to feel bad for him at the characters funeral. The one he had when he died the last time, in the Zandalar storyline.
I wouldn’t really consider those two characters analogues either, or what I would even define as a story depicting anyone being ‘crazy’ for wanting ‘revenge’.
Then you haven’t been paying attention to the posts on this very board.
3 Likes
Well, just like Kul’Tiras got a punch in the face - on -screen - from Horde/Zandalari trolls.
You somehow forget that Kul’Tiras then took revenge there.
So Sarm is right, everything that happened was written in such a way that it was …well, deserved.
It doesn’t address what I’m trying to say though.
Horde players frequently bring up Dazar’alor when reacting to the idea that the Alliance didn’t get any hits in - and that’s because Dazar’alor is a point that actually lands.
Whether Sarm believes the Horde deserves it is not material to the point that I was making, and without offense to Sarm, I’m pretty certain that if the Horde was nuked from Azeroth tomorrow, he would claim that they deserved it. I don’t think that’s a position that most Horde players would agree with him on.
Kyalin, you are perfectly aware that this is a lie.
You don’t give any attempts to debate anyone who doesn’t agree with you even though you’ve been debunked and dismissed countless times.
Either fix your crap or screw off.
Sorry, I may have missed it. I tried scrolling through but there’s a bunch of bullying from Kyalin in this thread, and when he gets pointed out as wrong he just tries to pivot and change topics, so I may have missed it in the jumping around.
The most recent quote from you I see is:
I don’t know if this is the post in question. If so, there had been a prior response from another person and I only added the following:
My comment was based mostly on the fact that the Forsaken could act as a Bulwark in Cataclysm, but because of the naval situation, extreme commitments of forces to one conflict or another was likely to result in devastating counterattacks. So the Alliance could overpower the Forsaken if they sent all their troops to the Undercity, but doing so would leave the entire Alliance undefended and attackable.
In contrast, at the start of BfA the context was that without the navies available to provide both support and troop transports, the vast majority of forces that could be brought to bear would be those only within the continent itself. With that in mind, the entirety of Kalimdor became open for assault by the Horde, because the Alliance was weaker there. This would of course make any Horde holdings in the EK open for retaliation due to the Alliance strength there. If the Alliance had been the aggressor, they could have used the same philosophy to attack the Undercity to start the conflict.
Instead, Blizzard decided to change course and go with the Horde initiating yet another war. The Horde tricked the Alliance and marched into an area with dramatically superior numbers. They were harried and slowed by the Night Elf city guards and even completely brought to a stop by Malfurion, but superior numbers won out eventually before enough troops could be brought in as reinforcements. During the time of Cataclysm, this equation was very different.
If I missed something else, I’m sorry (and hope this doesn’t create more confusion). I’ve been working on integrating some of my current weakauras to accept inputs from other addons and I’m not exactly skilled at it.
Kyalin, we’ve talked about your blatant and repeated use of lies, falsehoods, and tactically deployed logical fallacies. You really need to stop getting mad at people for pointing out your clear victimhood complex and racial power fantasy. Unfortunately, you’re not interested in debates, because every time you encounter an opposing argument you resort to bullying or dismissal in your attempts to create an echo chamber that is completely void of logic or fairness.
Fix this.
6 Likes
Next thing you know someone will just take a thread Kyalin has made, and just steal I- wait a minute…
I think Night Elves does not need some small revenge on Sylvanas. What Night Elves really need:
- Confirmation that Night Elves territories like Ashenvale are in Night Elves hands.
- Information, that cities like Astranaar and Lordanel are being under reconstruction.
- Children models, showing that Night Elves population started to re-grow.
- New capital city (using those new decorations that were represented on the Darkshores), and removing elves from the streets of Stormwind.
- Information that Night Elves as a nation is full again (people love Elune again, trust their leaders, Delaryn and others are back at home and saying sorry).
- Information about Silverwing Sentinels (that they are still exist and operated).
- Super cool racial gear (not some cheap 10 minutes work, but real nice work with full love).
If all of this will happen, than I don’t care about Sylvanas. You can have her alive or whatever.
10 Likes
I think you hit all the major points save one. I continue to assert that it’s important that we see these territories reclaimed onscreen. It should not be the case that our counterparts in the faction rivalry gets these flashy cinematics and heaps of onscreen content demonstrating how they beat us, but the best we can hope for is an extremely limited scenario in Darkshore, and maybe a couple of tweets.
I mean, Zarrin is just being immature at this point. “No U” is not an argument, particularly when he’s failed to connect it to anything. Although I would be quite entertained if he, in some flailing attempt to rage against getting called out for his intentional use of logical fallacies, made a “How to Fix the Night Elves (Actual Horde Edition)” where Alliance fans are barred from speaking. It would be par for the course at this point.
As to you, Zarrin:
Yeah ‘NO U’ is a pretty poor attempt at arguing, and a bad look. I’m not surprised at who has adopted this style.
I mean, I’m just parroting your own arguments back because you refuse to engage with anyone who disagrees with you. Considering your typical argument tactic can be summarized by your use of “Wrong /10char” compounded with a mess of insults, condescension, and rudeness, I felt like meeting at your intellectual level was the proper response.
Perhaps you should consider trying to be honest with yourself (and everyone else). You’ve claimed every opposing voice is using some sort of dishonesty or logical fallacy, even after your own dishonesty and logical shortcomings are pointed out (at which point you try to ignore it and pivot to a new topic). Considering you were called out in another thread for trying to act as a gatekeeper, it’s somewhat amusing to see you flail around trying to suggest anyone else is doing that.
It seems pretty clear you have a desire to only communicate within an echo chamber. I don’t understand the desire, but I honestly don’t care. When you resort to insulting, belittling, and bullying folks into either agreeing with you or just leaving, I take issue with it. Disagreeing does not mean you have to be disagreeable. Trying to pretend that disagreement somehow is an intellectual deficiency though shows your own inability to deal with any other concepts but your own.
Since we’re linking videos - here’s what I have to say to your Billy Madison-esque comments:
1 Like