I don’t think this would be much of a problem if Blizzard didn’t kneecap the M+ key range.
I keep an eye on all the WQs and I’ve only seen maybe one for 25 fragments per week. I’ve formed like 2 keys based on fragments. The echos might give you 1-2 per 5 but they were bugged for so long I didn’t bother. I’d say realistically maybe up to 6 keys.
That seems fine. After that they can focus on on progressing or gearing another alt.
Nope. Which is why I’d like to see them bring back 2-3 key levels below where +2 starts to create room for similar gear levels coming from delves but at a similar difficulty.
I’m not sure if different people see different rewards, but last week I definitely got 125 fragments from world quests.
It caps out at 425; you may need to group to get that. But there are auto invite raid groups all the time you can jump on to get that max amount.
Ion is just blaming Delves for shortcomings in M+.
Nobody is running Delves to to skip M1-M7 and jump directly into M8’s.
The question is. Why are you runniung content that you dont want to run? If you want to run M+ then do so. The way one person wants to get gear shouldnt bother you. The fact it does makes you the problem not the system.
That’s wild. I wish I could see that many. Well I can buy keys now and buy a full set of 580 gear so it doesn’t matter too much for me personally.
First and only time I ever did it (in a big group of like 30) I got a grand total of 35. I was honestly a bit angry. I did some research and learned it was bugged for some so I said eh I just won’t do it.
NOBODY is running delves to skip M1-M7.
None of the M+ complaints are new.
If you really think M+ is suddenly bad because of Delves, you’re delusional. M+ has always been bad.
Day 62 it has been hard and difficult but I felt forced to progress in M+ to defeat T8 Sinkhole. It was only a matter of time before I gave into the need to get more gear and more power to finally beat that mean tentacle boss of destruction. I had hoped it wouldnt’ have come to this, but alas it has and so I shall with deep regret delve into the darkness that is M+ dungeons. I could feel a developers gaze upon me and a smile as I pressed the LFG button and queued for Dawnbreaker.
I’ve doing it on alts right now.
Why run +5’s when an 8 bountiful yields the same rewards with a fraction of the challenge?
I geared out my hunter from lfr and t8’s. She is 609. I’ve timed an 8 lol. Sub 6’s are quite literally worthless other then using them to push score so you can pug into 6+.
Raiders and Mythic plus Players should focus on doing the content they enjoy. You don’t see delve or world content players doing raids or M Plus.
If your guild needs to run delves in order to progress raids then maybe your guild is aiming too high. Nothing wrong with just getting ATOC and not CE.
I would add that there needs to be a gear vendor for raiders and mythic plus. That way they feel like they are progressing towards a goal even when RNG doesn’t favor them.
Delves desperately need to be removed from the game. It ruined everything.
Most of the problem is due to the key squish they did in DF. An 8 key now feels like a 15.
My simple “no it isn’t” response was in response to an equally tactless assertion that M+ is more difficult. I don’t mind your message, because no one should assert that M+ is more difficult, particularly for people being carried rather than having to do the battle alone, without an explanation either.
As to the drop off in 5-7 keys, there have been a lot of comments about that being driven by the “squish” in key values.
That is hilarious as I have played that game… r o f l m a o
I see lots of complaints on here about delves offering better rewards than lower keys. That may be true, but m+ offers much better rewards than delves in the long run. Looks like all people are worried about is instant gratification.
If all I was worried about was getting top end gear, I would do m+ and use the low keys to get score and dungeon experience, so I could progress towards the better gear. It’s almost like having a goal and working towards something, doesn’t have to be instant.
Its never been about aotc. Thats a participation trophy. Its always been about mythic. And considering a delve 8 is on the level of a world quest, it should provide world quest level gear. So no, it doesn’t bolster your argument. Both are easy. Delves being significantly less of a difficult venture when compared to all other end game activities.
Nerfing Delves would be a huge mistake imho.
It’s one piece of 616 gear per week. There’s 16 slots or so? 4 months to gear fully in just Delves? And you aren’t getting all BIS doing that.
Those kinds of players are really casual.
So you wanna tell me the easy way to get there? Cause I bet there isn’t one.
Meanwhile on Delves… “hey guys! I got a key to use!”
After 15 to 20 minutes on a Delve 7.
Balanced game go brrrrrrrr.
The things is, I don’t care if I only get one potential 616 piece a week, keys only give 610 and I don’t upgrade those. Besides, I thought people played the game to progress; if you get all the best gear too quick, what’s left?
Edit: sorry I forgot, wow stopped being even remotely about the journey when they started funneling people to end game a long time ago, my bad 
The issue isn’t the upper bound, it’s the intermediary steps. Champion level gear is needed for a lot of people to progress through lower and mid-tier difficulty to reach the higher difficulties. So when an option comes around with a 100% champion gear drop rate, is designed to be solo therefore reducing reliance on others (but also can be grouped for the players that want to do so), and can be completed in 1/3 the time, that impacts the demand for the lower difficulty options of the other modes.
And to be clear, I am not suggesting delve loot should be nerfed, I think the other pillars should be adjusted to offer a similar difficulty for similar reward structure delves do. But it still creates some problems having this much of an outlier in the ecosystem.