Again, off topic. It has nothing to do with my elitism or elitism in general. I also stated this before about how my argumentation is from a position outside of myself. I constantly argue against certain M+ changes that would benefit me individually because I know it wouldn’t be good for the game or M+ as a whole. You literally have nothing so you keep repeating “elitism” and “you want to take gear away” when it’s not the case.
It has everything to do with elitism.
The “moral high ground” doesn’t magically make your position any less elitist.
The “moral high ground” again. For “the good of the game”. “Won’t anyone think of the children”.
Do you want delve gear nerfed? Wait, no you don’t want that. That’s too easy and not enough. You want delve gear to stay exactly the same but make it about 10-20x harder to actually get the gear. You want to put it out of reach of the average solo player. At the end of the day, same thing.
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No, it really doesn’t. You can say it does if it helps you sleep at night and if it’s the only way you can cope, but it doesn’t have anything to do with elitism.
I never claimed to come from a “moral high ground” this is just another one of your sad attempts at dodging the actual argument with more strawmans.
You created a nesting doll of strawman arguments.
You can’t even seem to state what my argument is even when asked. You are literally spewing nonsense left and right because you can’t argue in good faith for a split second. This entire exchange has been nothing but you coming at me instead of discussing the argument. You mentioned “it’s not that serious” multiple times, yet here you are being the one who takes it that seriously that you can’t stay on topic.
Keep telling yourself that.
You don’t have to explicitly say it. You said it when you claim:
And
“Moral high ground”
Say strawman one more time…
If it helps you cope to think that, then you go right ahead.
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Also not what I said in the slightest. The fact that you keep repeating this only shows how little you think of solo players.
I don’t need to tell myself anything when you are the one who keeps coming up with with things that were never on the table.
So being able to debate and argue about things while removing yourself from it is a “moral high ground”? No, it’s called trying to be objective and impartial. Lmao.
Guess at the end of the day you’ll just have to some how deal with delves being rewarding for solo players. Hang in there.
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Typical response from you glazing over the post because you have nothing on topic to say.
What? I can’t hear you in all my delve gear.
Good for you?
Thanks 
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Being a solo player, I wouldn’t mind if m+ dropped quadruple loot in mythic quality, I still wouldn’t run them. Just leave delves where they’re at. I don’t think delves should give mythic quality loot either.
I didn’t even know there were people who wanted mythic from delves, I just think it’s cool that I can get some hero track from it and not be miles behind top tier players in ilvl. I like feeling more powerful when I’m in the open world, too, and taking less time to farm old raids for mogs/mounts.
If I wanted top tier gear, I’d ‘get gud’. But I’m fine with being a tier below m+/raiders, and I think most solo players that run delves are ok with it too (although I can’t speak for all of them)
I probably won’t even get much past 600 ilvl if I even reach that because I don’t like just blasting through anything repeatedly, but it’s nice to know that the option is there to get a gear upgrade if I don’t want to group.
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Fed up, tired, annoyed and bored that everything revolves around M+ players.
Ready, I said it.
I like delves, I meet non-toxic people, if I want I go alone and if not I go in a group and the clock is not ticking or Rio is looking at me over my shoulder.
Can you let us play in peace? We pay the same fee.
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The core of the problem isn’t delves, it’s the fact that M+ players are the WoW version of vegans and crossfitters. They never stop trying to convince you that what they do is the best and you should do it too, right up until Blizz adds something to the game that doesn’t directly benefit M+.
Then it is the same every time, “I am forced to do this other thing instead of the thing that I love above all else instead of just running M+ and being happy because allegedly I love it.” This is why we cant have nice things
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And let’s never forget the collective punishment the entire playerbase was subjected to due to m+ players. That is, the aoe cap nerf.
Never forget.
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That’s one of the more aggravating things about M+. Even though I don’t engage with it, it still affects me in stupid ways.
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And im inclined to fully, unabashedly, disagree. Forcing people to change their playstyle for the sake of the content they actually want to do has always been loathed by the community STARTING IN VANILLA, but absolutely got much worse in TBC. In particular where it became obvious that PVP gear took less time to get and supplimented PVE gear. People HATED how much of an advantage it gave, because to be competitive, they were being forced into a playstyle they didn’t enjoy.
Delves are their own thing, and you can (and usually should) take yoir time with them so you dont overpull. Mythics are a dramatic opposite to that.
Hence my comment, if they changed the timer to a lives system, mythics might be more approachable…but the mythics players would never accept that.
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I agree for the most part. I acknowledge that some M+ players would welcome the change, so I differ with you on that.
But the general sentiment - I am with you. Remove the timer and the very, very vocal toxic gatekeeping portion of the M+ community will cry oceans of tears.
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Other than the same 2 trolls (folks, use ignore) there is a pretty big consensus here. People like Delves and a lot of those people have no interest in M+ for various reasons.
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- Delves are a hell of alot more boring than Mythic + outside of the undeniable fact that you meet toxic ragequitters in Mythic +; 2. Delves rewards in vault essentially allow ppl to skip raid tiers and go straight into Mythic raid with no effort whatsoever which is really dumb, so ya it should be nerfed a bit. I know some of you like to play this game and faceroll all over the keyboard but thats not how this game was intended.
What some of you should try to see is that by engaging into Mythic +, the mode insentivises you to become better at your class which equates to overall better WoW experience for you, your clan, your friends, whatever. I’ve ran several keys already and had no issues whatesover! If you suck, you suck, and thats on you. At the end of the day however, running keys below 7 isnt pointless, because ppl see if you’ve cleared the dungeon on a lower key otherwise they don’t invite you.
There’s alot to like about Mythic +. Implement a punishment for abandoning a Mythic + group – a reasonable punishment that takes into account ppl who were disconnected. What seems to fly over the heads of these plebs is time wasted, and they ARE ruining the experience for everyone. Can’t clear the timer because of some kid whos brain hasn’t matured yet? thats fine! Cant clear the time because someones arm twitched and fat-fingered the wrong button and died? thats tine! and there is still the chest at the end with vault; not completing it at all because one or two people left is a whole different extreme.
I think you are missing my point.
Let’s say level 80 gear can be upgrade 0-100 just to keep things simple
1-25 can be up graded through world quests / delves / lfr
26-50 can be upgraded through normal raid, 8+ delves, and like 1-4 mythics.
51-75 can be upgraded through heroic repaid and mythic+ 5-9
76-100 can be upgraded through mythic raid and mythi+ 10 on up
Mind you this is all on one piece of gear.
Change vault to offer a crests option
This would also solve the 4 transmog colors for each piece of raid tier.
Essentially you can not upgrade your gear past the content you are trying to run.
It still eliminates the need to do 1-4 mythics for the hardcore, but 5 keys are not super hard.
This would get at worst more players into mythic plus if they chose to do so.