I guess I just don’t understand gatekeeping. It makes less than zero sense to me …everyone having good gear is just good for the game. If a player sucks at the game the gear isn’t gonna matter. People should have an equal footing across the board and be able to obtain bis gear pretty easily. This whole devide is bad for the game and honestly it’s kinda silly.
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It’s hard to explain because it’s pretty childish. Boils down to “you can’t have the pixels that I have!”
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Yea…that’s insane to me. lol. I want everyone in whatever party I’m in to be just as geared if not more geared than I am. If it were up to me gear would be free and the game would make up for it. Not the other way around. To not want people getting good gear is actually also at the same time asking for the game to die. It’s…foolish at best.
What is going on with this “Play what I command you to play” from the President of WoW?
M+are designed for a niche group, who wants to test their limits and got that kind of people playing it. A success.
Delves, by the other hand, has the casuals (mostly majority of the player base by statistics) playing it. A success.
Is there will be people who wants to try both mode? Absolutely.
Is there will be people who quits one mode after trying it? Of course.
Is there will be people who change their favorite mode for the other one? Sure.
But a different thing is expecting that the vast majority (if not all) of the Delves players will jump into M+, because it’s literally another game with another environment and another design.
For a lot of players hitting level 8 Delves, you’re getting very powerful rewards at that point. When you look across from there to Mythic+, it can feel like there’s no point doing anything below a Mythic+7, and 7 and up is actually quite hard. If you’re someone without experience of dungeons to begin with, +7 is not the best point of entry, and it certainly wasn’t designed to be a point of entry, so we think some players are hitting a cliff wall.
Ion, you just answer your own question there. Some people find completing things fun or getting better gear fun meanwhile other people thinks difficulty equals fun.
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That is fair. But i also think that most of the issue is the community. Mythic+ players expect perfection. No one is going to be gentle about keys, by their very nature.
I just had an odd thought. What if the timer was switched to a lives system (yes, like in delves)? You could slow down which would make things slightly more reasonable? To get new players into mythics?
WoWs community and early structure came from some very toxic ideals created by outspoken people who played a lot of a very toxic game (Everquest). That influence of “haves” and “have nots” and “gitgud” over “lets just have fun together” has always been a tidal force in WoW. And as much as the devs want us to have fun, they know this toxic element is still there and they STILL appeal to it because it generates interest.
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The title you made suggests you take it personally that there is a natural progression past the point you’re willing to go. Not surprised, as being easily offended is a symptom of the demographic blizz is targeting.
If M+ wasn’t absolutely god awful then I’d do M+ more. But its miserable. Why get declined 30+ times before finding a group that fails the timer when I can just go a silly solo instance and get gear?
Make M+ not terrible and more people will play it.
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I think they were looking for a solution to a real problem. That problem is that there is a massive crowd of people who play this game but LOATHE being in groups. They like interacting with other players, seeing them, etc, but they HATE coordinated group activities.
Coming up with an end game for them has almost never been a priority. But the issue is, as more people get burnt out on mythics (because they are toxic) and raiding (because it’s a massive time commitment)… the group of people who identify as “solo pve” has grown. And what we have done in the past? Unsubbed.
And that’s deadly to the game.
But Ion not understanding that a) the best rewards from delves should be solo play, b) we aren’t going to jump into mythics even if you wave ilvl at us c) we aren’t casuals, we just hate other people is frustrating.
Im more than willing to put up with Brann and all his shenanigans. Im not willing to put up with mythics.
They are seperate endgame content structure. They should stay that way.
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Well said.
I would say this statement is one of the issues of the community you are referring to.
M+ does not expect perfection. most M+ players are actually gentle.
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at no point did Ion say anything like this.
ion didn’t say the best rewards from delves shouldn’t be able to be done solo.
ion didn’t say all delve players are going to jump into mythic.
if we can’t have an honest recounting of what was said it makes these discussions difficult
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What you’re not understanding is that content being entirely segregated from other forms reduces engagement. That’s deadly to the game. But at the same time, allowing you to do cross overs from other forms of content comes with its own bag of problems
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It will give me more time to fish, herb and craft without a thought of M+
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I have no desire to ever M+.
They must be seeing M+ numbers dropping so are putting more incentives to ensnare people in.
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This set of players confuses me as to why they are even here, they bring nothing to the faction they are on, and IMO, I find them fascinating as much as I do people who go to strictly PVE EA (early access) games and demand PVP in it.
Humans are fascinating. 
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especially when said game modes are doing an excellent job of turning people off the game
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Bad troll bad
It’s not that simple.
Dungeons and heroics are meant to be done by everyone, as are delves - so if delves are on the same level as heroics at the highest, then there is no point in doing them.
If they’re meant to fill the gap between heroic and mythics, then they are no longer optional.
Or, we can have bespoke delve gear, but now we’ve fractured gearing 3 ways and punished people who want to delves and dungeons.
There is no easy answer
False equivalency.
Those of us who want to run mythic+, already are.
Those of us who don’t, won’t.
Nerfing delves won’t help mythic+ out in any meaningful manner.
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