They were updated, let me find the video that will explain that issue.
That video will explain it all.
nobody wants it
I’m not even gonna justify this post with a reply.
Oh. Damn.
Thanks for the update, that explains it all. It’s strange seeing what the cities originally looked like, sort of like facades with holes between things you wouldn’t otherwise see. Reminds me of that Star Trek Original Series show where they did the gunfight at OK Coral.
I’m sorry to hear that Hayven, who made that video, passed away from cancer. His last video says he was only 26 years old.
A true shame, he made some really great content during his time.
You can actually create this yourself. Just create a new character and when you go to the riding trainer get Apprentice Riding and Journeyman riding which are ground only but don’t get expert riding.
In fact, at one time you could have gotten expert riding which will allow flying in Outland and some other places but not Northend. Just don’t get master riding. Not sure if that would still work.
Anyway you could then do Northend without the ability to fly.
That won’t work for players like the OP, they need to impose their way of playing on everyone else. They want everyone to be as annoyed and miserable as them.
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Big Problem with no flying realms. You wouldn’t be able to get into Icecrown and unlock the Shadow Vaults. That cuts out quite a bit of end game for Wrath.
The full sentence said “This is why the model for flying/fast travelling in most games is having you experience it grounded first and then, when the grandeur has faded and the convenience is more important, unlocking flying later.”. You quoted just “convenience is more important” and then argued against that as if that was the entire argument I was making. That’s directly and spectacularly dishonest adn the only reason you don’t think so is because you’re probably a habitually dishonest person and this sort of behaviour is normal for you.
Yes, too much convenience can be bad. That’s why we can’t immediately teleport anywhere we point to on the map. Flying is not too much convenience though. If it were given to us early with no restrictions it could be, but instead it’s given after levelling and doing the exploration achievements and there are still many areas in the game that don’t have flying.
Your standard of what level of convenience is acceptable for WoW is so strict that even flight paths would be breaching it. That’s clearly far beyond the limits of acceptability for this game. Fast travel mechanisms and taxis are absolutely necessary conveniences in RPGs. Not having them just means most people won’t bother, and all that “social interaction” you desperately want to achieve is gone entirely.
It also doesn’t mean you can fly because the exploration achievements involve more than that + timegating. I’m actually in favour of the current way of doing it rather than MoP’s way of an ungated gold sink at max level but that’s not to say I think MoP or WotLK made a mistake. Both of those expansions were designed in ways that made a lot of sense with when flying was made available. And in both of them if you remove flying you’re not going to just magically see the roads and fields full of players doing whimsical activities. Players will just cluster around areas with important objectives… which is almost nowhere once you get to max level and gear up a bit.
Levelling up and getting gear are tangible gains of power for your character. Traversing the same stretch of land 10 times is not. So this is just a terrible comparison.
Interacting with the map means haivng meaningful rewards from the map. Flying or not. WoD had no flying for the first few months and Blizzard even wanted to commit to having no flying for the entire expansion and every expansion afterwards. It utterly failed because there was nothing to do in the world and all the reason to just sit in the Garrison/a major city.
WotLK unfortunately, like most expansions, does not have much to do in the world once at max level. You have Loremaster and a handful of daily hubs, most of which are largely optional aside from Hodir (which itself assumes flying mounts). Once that’s done, everyone is AFK in Dalaran. Believing that will change in any meaningful way by removing personal flying mounts is delusional. People will just need even more non-existent incentive to go out into Northrend, and when they do go out they will mostly go directly to where they need to go with a taxi flight path.
The current model for flying in wow with Legion, BFA, and Shadowlands has proven very successful. Even after flying you see people out in the world because world quests exist and they have incentives such as paragon caches with mounts for people to pursue. Interaction out in the world is 100% dependent on incentives. This is the line I’ll repeat until you understand or give up.
WTF are you talking about? You absolutely have a lot of people camped out in the major cities in Classic. This is straight-up delusion. You’re just imagining an alternative reality at this point. People only went out if they had to and flight paths existed from the beginning. In WotLK itself we still had the old Kalimdor and EK with no flying and the zones were scarce as people looked for faster and alternative ways of levelling up, and a big part of that is the tedium in travel.
Delusion. Some level of convenience is absolutely needed and too little convenience is much worse than too much. The type of game you’re envisioning is one in which people stop playing and therefore stop all the social interaction and exploration you want to see. The two most successful MMORPGs in history, WoW and FF14, both have extensive convenience aspects including flying, teleporting, and queued instanced content. All of the successful single-player RPGs have fast travel. This isn’t a matter of “but no one’s tried the alternative!”. RPGs started with minimal convenience factors plus excessive grind and death penalties as methods of padding out playtime and we arrived at the current state through evolutionary design and competition between IPs.
Lots of purist WoW classic streamers went on about this point and when the rubber hit the road they were all in Scarlet Monastery levelling via mage boosting.
Believing that you can rewire player philosophy and mentality by just removing flying is… wait for it… delusional. Yes, I’ve said that word a lot this post. It’s a running theme of your arguments. This isn’t even a matter of a cultivated mentality. This is just game theory. People aren’t going to engage with content that requires more investment for less reward. This is coming from someone who does like to explore in-game content as much as possible. You are NOT going to enhance the world interaction or social experience of WotLK by removing flying.
When exactly do you think this grand “point A to B” social experience existed in the first place? Becuase interaction only happening at hubs of interest perfectly describes classic as well when we don’t have personal flying mounts. It’s how any online game works as a matter of fact. Because player involvement depends on incentives.
Lacking logic = thinking that you’ll get more people out in the world if you make traversing the world more tedious.
I don’t hate levelling. I never boost levelled like the so-called classic purists did after their years of insisting everyone was just too impatient these days.
People look for fast ways through content. This is true back to Classic where literally just buying a max-level character off Ebay was a huge market. Believing in some mythical golden past were everyone was more patient and tolerant of inconvenience is… you guessed it… delusional. It’s exactly like boomers ranting about “kids these days” and how everything in the early 20th century (what with its wars, mass injustice and abuse, wealth inequality, etc) was better. The “good old days” trope is one of the most cliche and fallacious takes of all.
I don’t have a problem with how I approach this issue. I like exploring and levelling. I’m not going to pretend everyone does, and as a matter of fact flying helps the game a lot. Eventually world content gets old. Providing shortcuts through it over time only makes sense from a game design perspective. Again, every RPG does this, as much as you insist that good RPGs don’t.
This is still a stupid idea and this doesn’t answer the question. What do you think Northrend will look like if it didn’t have personal flying mounts? Do you honestly believe we will suddenly achieve this utopian vision of people frolicking around in the world? I’m trying to get a gauge on the delusion here.
This is quote-mining again and also dodging the question. Can you name an area in Northrend which is largely abandoned but will see more people interacting with it if personal flying mounts didn’t exist?
What’s nuts is how we already saw how this whole debacle plays out with WoD and people like OP still want to have another go at it.
A small but vocal and annoying faction of purists thinks that interaction out in the world is perfectly inversely proportional to how much flying convenience there is, and if there were no flying mounts everyone would just happily frolic through the meadows interacting with one another and the world around them. Blizzard bought into this in WoD and didn’t have flying at the start, stringing us along for several months before revealing that they weren’t ever going to add it.
They of course had to go back on that due to massive backlash. A big part of that backlash was how their experiment obviously didn’t work out despite their pretending that it was going great. The Draenor zones were damn near empty at all times because there was NO reason to go out at all. Removing flying doesn’t fix that. If anything, it makes it WORSE. If you want people to interact with the world you have to give them reasons to go out into the world. Not having flying is a reason not to go out in the world.
The way Retail does flying now, with it being gated to a few months in, is fine. The way WotLK did it was fine too, where you get it at level 77 and content after that point assumes you have it and designs around it. Another “no flying” experiment would be an enormous waste of time.
So you wont accidentally fly over Wintergrasp and be forced into PvP mode…
You only have trouble understand things that are very obvious to any logical person because you can’t comprehend the concept of not seeing travel as an obstacle to you getting to the rest of the game. Travel IS an essential part of the game.
Hilarious. Everyone knows, even Blizzard, that the forums are filled with nothing but whining complaining people who aren’t actually playing the game. Everyone who likes the game is too busy playing it to waste time complaining and being combative towards every idea ever proposed on the forums.
I suppose it would be for someone with an extremely difficult time utilizing critical thinking skills and reading comprehension.
Yeah… like throwing in a couple of flight paths. Oooo soooo hard. How dare I demand blizzard to add such a new and complicated “”“feature”“”
I’m sorry but I will. People like you said the exact same things about flying in azeroth before cataclysm. “It can’t be done! It’ll never happen! Stop asking for it so Blizzard can focus their energy on making new raids!” The sad part being that more people were anti-flying than pro-flying back then. Oh how the tables have turned.
You’re so close and yet you can’t see the forest for the trees. The exact same reason why you can’t fly in dungeons is the same reason why you shouldn’t fly in the world. The game is on the ground and it’s meant to be played. The mobs are there preventing you from getting to the boss because you haven’t earned fighting the boss yet. The ground and obstacles are there preventing you from getting to your destination because you haven’t earned arriving at your destination yet. But you people are too ingrained in your ways to see what is obvious: you wanting to avoid as much traveling as possible is you wanting to avoid playing the game as much as possible. Which is the same reason you people pay for lvl 50 or whatever boosts because you hate leveling too.
And here is a perfect example of your complete failure to use critical thinking whatsoever. Try reading what I said again slowly. Maybe you’ll be able to figure out what I actually said instead of applying your bigoted assumptions that you wanted to be true from the beginning.
No they didn’t. At all. I’ve already addressed people interacting with each other on flying mounts near the airspace of points of interest. It doesn’t somehow negate the complete lack of player interaction in the process of getting there.
“muh slippery slope fallacy” Just admit you hate the idea that people want to play WoW without flying mounts and you can’t stand the thought of those people having fun without doing something that your cognitive dissonance prevents you from acknowledging isn’t a necessary or healthy part of the game.
Maybe if you stopped skimming things for soundbites that you can attack you’d actually understand what’s being said. My point was clearly that people don’t, yet in BC, have a large collection of fancy flying mounts that they wouldn’t be able to fly anywhere but outlands.
If you want things that I hate that means you’re a troll. The wow forums are truly a cesspool.
Literally just Blizzard too lazy to deal with the giant empty spaces surrounding the city.
Half of the wow player base wants it. Unfortunately they’re all too busy playing wow classic to waste time complaining on the forums.
You understand that a optional realm choices are… optional right? As in you don’t have to go there?
It’s hilarious how ppl like you keep pretending that WoD failed “because of no-flying”, even tho flying was implemented, when everyone and their mother knows it failed because of garrisons and poor PvE content
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You want massive changes then? This isnt something the majority want… we like flying mounts, I don’t know why a few people still insist on arguing it.
How have I not comprehended this? You’re talking about player interaction, and obstacles. You want that to be a thing, and it is, flying is the solution to the obstacle.
So this must then, of course, include those making suggestions then, no?
“When they attack your character, it’s because they can’t attack your argument.”
So they’re going to add flightpaths to every section of ICC and each peak in Storm Peaks… how do you get them? A quest chain perhaps? Just granted when needed? Oh, how about they revamp the servers to have the grappling gun from Legion, and you can climb the mountains.
I remember that discussion very differently. I saw a lot of people excited about flying in Azeroth. Weird, it almost seems like you enjoy being the vocal minority…
Are you actually this dense? Flying removes the obstacle, when you earn it. What kind of circular back water half pint of chocolate swirl is this?
Done, it still says in plain English “I don’t want other people to fly.”
They’re player hubs, and usually busy, what part of this fails to meet your requirement? Or is it because it isn’t the inn in hellfire pen?
No, that’s my actual concern. I didn’t say “it will happen”… I’m saying it’s my concern that it will. You understand the difference, right? I mean, look at the original DF setup… Classic Season of Mastery… etc. etc…
Again, what does number of mounts have to do with anything? Unless your argument is that the counter argument has and always been “I have all these mounts I can’t use anywhere but Outland!!!” which was never an argument, so it’s another moot point on your side.
No, see, it the condescending tone of your replies, your complete lack of social grace, and the fact that you contradict yourself in order to “get em”, that makes you sound like a troll. I think you’re trolling because the overwhelming negative response of this thread speaks volumes, yet you’re still pushing it like it’s a great idea and has no flaws. Not to mention anybody who speaks about it, lacks reading comprehension and critical thinking skills.
I find it entertaining that you keep pointing to the “large player base that wants this” as being too busy playing the game to write their thoughts on the forums. Though they enjoy the game, and they’re likely FLYING IN OUTLANDS, which they must hate, so why are they playing a game they hate, and not replying and ringing the bell for no flying realms in wrath for you?
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No it doesn’t. Only people who shoot down every suggestion made in the forums. Example: you
Yeah, let’s pretend that that wasn’t me saying that your argument was completely illogical and unintelligent.
No. They could add one flight path and make the entire area ground mount accessible. Or a ramp. Or a teleporter. Or a cave. Or a bridge. Stop acting like it would require many additions to the zones.
That doesn’t somehow make me a troll. Your biased and emotional adding of some imaginary “tone” to my posts is all in your head.
That’s literally never happened. But you’re clearly very triggered by my ideas that facts are merely an inconvenience for you.
It’s literally an amazing idea and I don’t care how many actual trolls in the forums don’t like it and want my thread to die.
This is a highly accurate assessment of 90% of the people trying to destroy my suggestion.
The fact that you can’t figure out why flying in a game that flying is available in doesn’t mean that you support flying and why this isn’t contradictory just clearly demonstrates my previous assessment that you lack critical thinking skills
Just because you say it like someone is a moron for even daring to suggest it doesn’t somehow make it a non-viable solution. It just makes it one that you personally don’t like. Because telling someone not to do or use something that they dislike is the most simple and practical solution that could be suggested. Regardless of your personal feelings.
Having said that, I couldn’t care less if they made a no flying realm. I seriously doubt that it would be all that popular and I personally wouldn’t touch it with a 10-foot pole but I’ll take the great advice that you seem to want others to take but refuse to yourself. I don’t like it thus I won’t use it. 
I can’t not use a flying realm. They’re all flying realms. Not using a flying mount solves literally zero of the problems that no-flying realms would solve. I don’t understand why this is so hard for all of you.
You can refrain from using a flying mount. I don’t understand why this simple choice is so hard for you to admit. It may not be the solution that you like, but it’s an accurate one. I’d also like to add that just because you think something is a problem doesn’t automatically make it a problem for others.
But again, I have nothing against adding a no flying realm. Personally, I think it will be a fairly dead server that most people will join for the novelty and quickly get tired of it after that novelty wears off. But if you want to play on a dead realm, more power to you. Or you could just not do what apparently annoys you so much and move on.
With Cataclysm old world flight was enabled…Blizzard had my superscription for as long as there was a World of Warcraft and I just couldn’t get enough of the game. THEN they enabled Pathfinder…I no longer purchase new expansions, no longer recommend WOW, log in and play nowhere near as often and I am often on the prowl for a new game.
/wipes tears from eyes
I say flying is a much because Stormpeaks, Icecrown, and etc is already impossible to do on ground mount and honestly. I’m kind of tried of no flying in general thank you very much.