There are a lot of places in most zones where you can’t get from point A to point B without flight.
I would unironically love this.
This is a long thread. Did anyone actually end up agreeing with the OP or is it just OP alone insisting their repulsive idea has any sort of community support and isn’t laughed at by everyone else?
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No one agreed with him, but he is still convinced it is us who are wrong. Very devoted troll or not bright… I can’t tell sometimes.
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All the people who’d back them up on are in classic era images or SOM.
And they lay low. But but there is no flying there.
Very true. Not many players either…
they get this for 2-3 weeks in wrath refresh. where their theory goes to crap as most will be power leveling like a champ to 70. to then spam the crap out of strath to make the gold to buy all this stuff.
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who says it was “a mistake”? Thats an opinion, your stated opinion which doesnt mean anything in the overarching “truth”. My opinions dont mean truth either. What ones has to weigh up though is volumes of opinions. If 10 people say 1 thing is great, and 100000 people say the opposite is great. Do you think a company would opt to go with the 10 or the 100000?
The actual truth is it would require blizzard to put up an ingame poll, something that pops up on log in in order to gauge where peoples feelings lie on the matter. 20 or 30 people disagreeing on a forum thread isnt going to seal the deal, doesnt matter how much vigor and effort a person puts into posting opinions. I think the strangling of world content and the inability to simply reach what little there is has played a part in declining players over the years. Think of wod when there was 1 daily quest in the world per day and you had to ground pound to reach it
Do it honestly. Hehe then we can finally have th e data. ( if for or not for flying.)
Yeah. Do you know what 99% means?
Many people do.
“oh no! How dare things take time to do in a game! I’m supposed to get all my gratification instantly!” I’m sorry that you hate playing parts of the game and only want to get to the PvE part. You probably hate leveling too.
LMAO xD You aren’t serious are you? You can’t be
Another excellent point. The world is large without flying. And that’s a good thing!
There’s actually extremely few places that this is true.
See
I’m not convinced. I know that you’re wrong because you irrefutably are.
I’m not trolling you’re just wrong. Didn’t think of that possibility did you?
The fact that WoW has been going downhill ever since flying was put everywhere in Cata.
Someone actually thinking with their brain. Blizzard wanted to try no-flying for so long. And you people insist no one would like it… seems like this would be proven by making it opt-in
What are you talking about? We frequently experience grounded content. In every expansion flying is gated either to max level or an achievement sometime after max level. The only exception is Cataclysm and that’s because the end-game zones were in the old world which had flying unlocked at level 60 with the remake. Of course since WoD it’s been several months without flying each expansion before they unlock it, and they also frequently have grounded zones such as Molten Front, Throne of Thunder, Argus, and Korthia.
The fact of the matter is there are few benefits of not having flying and those benefits are largely temporary. The most significant argument is the the world is larger and more immersive when grounded. There’s truth to that, but only the first time through. The journey from point A to B may be grand and exciting the first time, but not the 10th time. This is why the model for flying/fast travelling in most games is having you experience it grounded first and then, when the grandeur has faded and the convenience is more important, unlocking flying later. That’s just good game design because it also provides an incentive/reward and allows you to experience the world from a fresh perspective later when flying is unlocked.
WotLK actually handled flying pretty well. You started off in Northrend grounded and you unlocked flying at level 77; after that the zones assumed you had flying and were designed around that. Yes, they could patch in a bunch of bandaids to make it work without flying mounts at all, but there is zero reason to pursue that because it’s designed well as it is.
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Logic clearly isn’t your strong suite.
Read this post
Instead of making arguments that have already been defeated
Convenience is not what games are about. Making it “convenient” to avoid interacting with the world as much as possible is called you avoiding playing the game as much as possible.
they made 2 bad bets already.
Classic era sealed. I and all my friends want to do 1 to 60 forever. 3rd party not giving good numbers here.
SOM…I and all my friends want fresh start. 3rd party not giving good numbers here.
Inb4 ironforge is not accurate. Correct, its all we have. and it pulls off reasonable data. you will submit log traffic in classic. Raider io not a thing.
even gdkp…checks logs. and you are paying to be there. its not carry you see. its 25 people wanting this quick, easy and faster to the bidding. ain’t got time for wipes. the actual thrill is seeing 3 rogues in the BT run. its going to be a good pot if glaives drop off that bidding war.
This is why most likely there is no tbcc sealed era realms. all go to wrath, no tbcc realm era sealed will happen. they hooked upi classic twice. and both combined are damn near less than the population of faerlina. Just faerlina. Not even tacking on mega server mankrik, bene, etc.
It seems like you’re just trying to quote-mine my response. What I said was “when the grandeur has faded and the convenience is more important” flying should be unlocked; picking out just “convenience is more important” and attacking that as if I’m saying the exploration doesn’t matter is spectacularly dishonest and I think you knew how dishonest it was before making the post.
I read your post and I don’t find it convincing. You’re still glossing over the fact that exploring the same world content the 10th time doesn’t carry the same weight as it does the 1st time. You’re not going to have a playerbase happily frolicking through the meadows if not for flying. They’re just going to finish the content then camp out in a major city for the rest of the expansion. We already see this happening in classic, just as it did back in 2006, even though we don’t have flying mounts there. If there’s no incentive to go out in the world people won’t go out into the world, flying or not.
In fact even if there is an incentive, not having flying and therefore raising the level of effort to do anything out in the world, makes people even less likely to do it. Since Legion we have world quests and what you see is people going out less and less until flying is unlockable. Then even with flying you see people doing world quests and grouping up because, as it turns out, you can’t do quests and fight mobs all from the back of a flying mount so you in fact still get player interaction. Using flying as a scapegoat for lack of player interaction has always been a garbage-tier take. There needs to be a reason for players to interact and until Legion we didn’t have much of that.
As for the gear comparison: that doesn’t work because gear is a matter of player power and incentive to do PvE content. PvE wouldn’t function if people got handed gear for free. Flying is a convenience reward for doing world content. At best you’re arguing that unlocking flying shouldn’t be account-wide rather than arguing against the concept of flying itself, and I think all that would accomplish is making people less likely to level new characters.
What exactly do you think removing flying from WotLK would accomplish? Don’t give me a broad appeal about player interaction; point to specific examples of content in Northrend in which you think people would interact with one another if not for flying.
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i was playing when cata launched (barely had issues with networking for the first while though). The biggest gripes were the increased difficulty of dungeons, and to some extent the trashing of the original zones themselves. Not that players could now fly in them
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Very true.
The bare minimum standard for “designed to be traversed by foot” is “being 100% traversible without a flying mount, glitches, or exploits”. Anything less than that is proof that the zone was designed to be traversed by flying mounts. These zones are failing to meet the BARE MINIMUM, before we even get into things like design philosophy such as “Are huge empty ice fields that take ages to run across full of mobs REALLY designed for ground travel just because you can? Or were they designed to look cool from the air?”. Because… yeah.
You were extremely dishonest in your framing and outright lied to several people. For no practical reason, I might add, considering you quoted yourself admitting some areas would need to be modified to be fully traversable on foot in the exact same post you lied to people by saying there weren’t areas in Northrend you need flying to get to.
And now you’re trying to BS your way out of having to even acknowledge the obnoxious lying you engaged in. Do you just have no self-control? Can you not stop yourself from being dishonest even when you’re not fooling anyone and it ONLY serves to harm you and the causes you support?
I don’t know what to say other than that this behavior is disturbing.
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Oh I know, that’s why they give a free bird if you don’t have one… it’s so dreadfully slow though lol
I think that’s a good thing personally, they aren’t good for the game… sure some aspects they’re totally right on, but for the most part they’re nothing more than a hinderance.
Yea, I guess I just decided to plop them all in the same group. Lol
It fit for world quest leveling pvp
leveling and pvp above 40 is one of the most fun part at wotlk.
Make medalion trinket an default starter gear item
No fliers always make me laugh.
If you don’t want to fly, don’t. It’s that easy folks.
I’m 100% pro flight. I actually wish that each iteration of the game including retail that they would have a server for people who don’t want flight.
Then we would find out if it is a thing people actually want and if it is they could increase the number of servers dedicated for it and also maybe stop being such ***** about it for those of us who enjoy it.
Besides even if it’s a flop it could hardly have fewer players on it then my current retail server.
No, I’m not. I’m responding to you because you’re making arguments. Now at least it seems like your arguments are actually based on reading my post.
I wasn’t being “dishonest” at all. I focused on that part because that is the crux of your argument. Too much convenience is very bad for videogames. You see interacting with the world as this “exploration” achievement concept and as a one and done sort of achievement that just becomes an inconvenience
First of all, clearing brown smudges off of a map doesn’t mean you fully explored the game world. MoP proved that you could miss many, many things even if you fully explored the map. Not that I’m suggesting that players be made to explore every inch of the game before they’re allowed to fly over it.
The primary problem is that you’re shoehorning interacting with the world, something that should always be happening in an MMO or any videogame, with this “exploration” achievement type goal. Interacting with the map is akin to leveling up or earning gear. It is a constant aspect of the game that should constantly be happening if you want to continue earning rewards in the game. Saying you’ve done it once doesn’t mean that there needs to be a mechanic for you to now avoid interacting with the world as much as possible via flying.
This only happens in classic because pvp instances teleport you back to the city and partially BECAUSE FLYING EXISTS. You didn’t see this in vanilla classic too much except for people who were bored, or again, doing pvp. There was not that many people in Orgrimmar in even the most densely populated servers except for people who were trading. The rest of everyone was out traveling to dungeons, gathering resources or doing world pvp. This is what a healthy MMO experience looks like. No matter how you slice it flying drastically reduces player-world interaction and non-instanced player-player interaction.
The less easily teleporting to dungeons and raids, the less flying, the less inter-city teleportation portal hubs, the better. The world is not supposed to be an obstacle for you to avoid dealing with as much as possible. Traveling is a key aspect of any good MMORPG.
This is because the inconvenience mentality Blizzard has cultivated by adding things like LFD, and flying.
I believe I’ve already addressed this. Player interaction only happens at hubs of interest. Quest hubs, cities, resource nodes, etc. Player interaction from point A to point B however is drastically reduced and close to non-existent. That is a fact.
If you lack logic I suppose.
I compare interacting with the world of World of Warcraft to leveling as well. But many of you hate leveling because of this inconvenience mentality that flying has cultivated. The world does not function the way it is meant to once flying is unlocked.
This is your problem right here. You cannot mentally untangle the concept of traveling and exploration with being an inconvenient obstacle to what you really want. This is not what interacting with the world that you are gaming in is supposed to be.
Not what I’m suggesting. I’m suggesting that we have no-flying realms.
“Tell me what 2+2 equals and dont give me that stupid ‘4’ answer!”