These new talent trees will be flawed for numerous reasons, overall it’s just a bad idea and bad design for World of Warcraft.
World of Warcraft is not a “solo RPG” game such as PoE or Diablo, your choices matter to a lot more people than they do on those other games.
What you claim as “customization” in actuality, is just “griefing.”
Is this an acceptable build, yes or no?
Would you run this build? Why or why not?
Would you invite a DK with this build to your Mythic+20 key? Why or why not?
If I’m doing it wrong, then it’s not true customization, now is it? In a sense, why are you leading me on, thinking that MY uniqueness will be viable when you already know it isn’t?
This is what it looks like to get talent trees back. Because most things in our spellbook used to be talents.
If you actually tried to talent trees you will see exactly what it should be. Now All specs can have a certain playstyle within the spec way better than what the old talents provided. You can now narrow in on exactly the type of niche role you want in your spec since you cant get everything anymore. But that means that nobody else can either. So you actually have to make choices. Thats the whole point of talent trees.
Honestly this lets to customize your spec like you used to be able to do back in the day. Today’s talent tree’s are so simplified it is not even funny.
well its clear since you made this thread that " YOU " have no clue to what you are even crying about looool but yes keep telling everyone that disagrees with " YOU" that they are clueless typical troll .
All t his means is that its a new time played metric to keep you playing longer so you can fill out your talent tree , a new grind . But it prob wont be that bad i hope .
tbh this is perfectly reasonable in dungeons and open-world, really good trash pack damage and better sustain than normal at the cost of 0 burst damage. Probably wouldn’t be amazing in M+ where you need burst damage, nor Raids where you need to pop cooldowns with bloodlust, and maybe a playable flag carrier but not much else in PvP.
Then again, you can troll just as much with modern talents. Does anyone sincerely pick Nightfall on Afflic. Lock?
But… why? At the end of the day, who does that benefit?
Why not make a style of game that lets you choose how to use spells, not what spells you do have.
There’s meaningful choice and then there’s “flavorful choice.”
If you were to look at Diablo3, with all it’s flaws, it does get “Skill Runes” — “right.”
You have a baseline skill, and then a Skll Rune allows for customization of that spell. Those could be more flavorful choices in WoW, then taking a gamble on whether or not your Holy Paladin spec’d into Holy Shock.
But the “adult” thing is, you goggle the spread sheet and just spec what the “experts” already tell you is best because they’ve researched and tested it more vigorously than you have.
This is why Textbooks exist.
And you can say screw the textbooks, screw the meta, maybe I’m smarter than they are!!!
Sure maybe, but probably not, cause they are the ones who do this for a living, lol.
Again, you’re building up player’s expectations that their customization is going to be viable, otherwise why would it exist?
It’s not me, it couldn’t be me, its the community and their “meta mentality!!”
Would you invite my Night Fae Ret Paladin, with no legendaries, no conduits, and no soulbinds, to your group? It’s just my way of customizing my character…
No? Why because it’s “wrong?” … guess I will go google the spread sheet and see how to do it “right.” Glad that “customization” lasted all of 4 seconds.
This is the best talent tree design WoW has had to date, imo. The only thing to change, is where ever you see a “Golden Dragon” should be an optional choice talent. Choose one “Skill Rune” over the other, but the tree should be fully acquirable.
I don’t agree at all. I can’t comment on the druid tree, but I play a bit of Blood Death Knight and what I’ve seen so far has been done well. You get to keep the fun stuff (Crimson Rune Weapon, 4 set, Abom), run talents that were fun but suboptimal in the current trees (Foul Bulwark, Rapid Decomposition, Consumption), and play with entirely new options like Permafrost and Runic Empowerment. Blizzard has the potential to execute them poorly but I’m decently intrigued by what I see. I’ll keep my thoughts reserved until more trees are released.
Or they could just hire people who are decent at designing systems.
Given the last 8 years of record, they seem to be incapable of doing this. Bring back the Legion team. They had some concept of fun, good design with Class Hall and Arti’s.
The point is, you make optional choices for Spell Modifiers.
You get BoP, but you get to modify it one of two ways.
You get Consecration, but you get to modify it one of two ways.
You get FoJ, but you get to choose between Repent and Blinding Light.
These are your “customization” perks of a “beginning” talent tree, which more could be added on as expansions grow, more passives, etc…
I shouldn’t have to gamble on whether or not my Holy Paladin has Holy Shock or Blessing of Protection because they simply did not spec into it.
I also shouldn’t have to have such restrictions on what build I want you to play, in order to be in my group, as that ruins the “customization” anyways.
I don’t want a Paladin without Holy Shock, for example. So either respec, or find a new group.
That paladin is gonna feel bad.
But… you’re not. From what they have shown, you are rebuilding 70% of your Shadowlands Character and that’s it for an expansion.
Imagine playing 2 more years of Shadowlands, but without 1 of your legendaries, no soulbinds, and only 2 conduits.
??? as opposed to buffing an ability some way or another? As opposed to deciding between 2 spells?
They already do that.
You’ll get to do that with the new talent trees too.
This as well.
In case you didn’t notice they have talents that lets you decide between 2 abilities in the new talent trees, 2 abilities from the same rows we have now in general AND the 3rd one, you get from someplace else in the tree.
Like they are doing now.
You don’t know how the talent trees for paladins look like.
You don’t know where the ability is positioned, it could be anywhere
It could be even your starter tree ability and as such non-skippable.
This is false, you’re getting 95%~ if you really want ++++++ you’re getting extra stuff.
Did you even do an assessment with the 2 classes that were shown? I did.
Here’s of Blood spec:
BOTTOM LINE:
What was gained:
Rune Strike - new baseline
Death Knight tree extras
Blood Scent - 3% leech
Suppresion - 3% avoidance
Brittle - chance to gain 6% dmg on diseased enemies
Permafrost - 40% dmg shield from autoattack dmg
Merciless Strikes - 4% crit
Might of Thassarian - 4% strength
Runic Empowerment - 2% chance per RP spent to gain a rune
Acclimation - cd on IB reduced by 60 sec
Assimilation - AMZ + 10% absorb and grants 100 RP based on amount absorbed
Improved Death Strike - -10 cost and healing increased by 10%
Abomination Limb - the good stuff! - covenant ability
Blood Tree extras
Improved Vampiric Blood - extra 5% healing and 2 sec duration
Shattering Bone - Bone shield shatters and does dmg, triple if enemy is in D&D
Crimson Rune Weapon - DRW generated 5 Bone charges, cd on DRW is reduced by 5sec/charge - lego
Extra talents than live: Rapid Decomposition, Consumption, Foul Bulwark, Anti-Magic Barrier, Death Pact
What was lost:
DK spellbook - didn’t get
Control Undead
Lichborne
4% stam from Veteran of the Third War
Here’s for Feral spec too:
BOTTOM LINE - What was gained, extra versus live:
Feral Tree - extras
Sudden Ambush - conduit
Taste for Blood - conduit
Eye of Fearful Symmetry - lego
Adaptive Swarm - covenant
Convoke the Spirits - covenant
Druid Tree - extras
Frienzied Regeneration - guardian affinity
Increased Armor and Physical Damage - 6%
Increased Healing and Magic Damage - 6%
Increased Healing and Healing Taken - 6%
Lycara’s Teachings - 3% crit in cat
Mark of the Wild - Increases the target’s Speed and critical strike chance by 3% and reduces their magic damage taken by 3% for 60 minutes.
Extra talents gotten as opposed to live: Renewal / Heart of the Wild / Brutal Slash / Moment of Clarity (though partial as it was split)
What was lost, versus live:
Druid Spellbook - didn’t get these:
Hibernate
Ironfur - Req bear form
Mangle - Req bear form
So basically, you’re gaining 2 conduits, 2 covenant abilities, 1 lego, frenzied regen, 6% phys dmg and armor, 12% healing done and 6% healing taken, 6% crit, 3% speed and 3% dmg reduce. AND 4 talents extra versus live: Renewal, Heart of the Wild, Brutal Slash and Moment of Clarity (partial).
And you’re losing: Hibernate, Ironfur (bear), Mangle (bear) and Ysera’s Gift from Restoration Affinity.
Changed/Neutral: 20 energy less on Tiger’s Fury but 2% more damage done.
TL;DR You’re gaining a lot more than you have on live. So no, Blizz is doing great so far. Ofc they will still re-arrange some of the abilities to match the pre-requisites during development.
I am not sure I understand what you’re showing here.
Yes we have new talent options, but what you have access to at any one given time is limited.
Show me a build that has Wild Charge, Ursine Vigor, Cyclone, Bear Bash, AND Stampeding Roar. Because I have all those on live right now.
Show me a Feral build with Feral Frenzy, Draught of the Deep and Primal Swarm… cause I have all those on live right now…
Of the things you have access to at a single time, is 70-80% of what you already have access to in Shadowlands. (You don’t have unlimited talents)
So whatever the case may be, you’re going to have meta builds, you’re going to have “right builds.”
So why give this illusion of choice.
So much so that you are having the possibility of saved Load Outs because Blizzard already knows that there’s gonna be boss builds, mythic builds, etc…
I’m all for customization, but these talent trees are just a fake façade of fluff. The player base is going to realize it real quick when they reach level 70 and feel like half of what they were in Shadowlands.
It’s just a poor way to start off the Talent Tree System, imo. =/
First of all, what you have on live now is your base character with talents + BORROWED POWER.
You’re losing that borrowed power either way.
So stuff it and stop making stupid comparisons.
What you have in DF is your baseline character + talents and NO borrowed power.
That’s the comparison to make.
Anything extra than your current baseline + talents is the NEW “borrowed power” except it’s put as talents.
Can i get both Convoke and Swarm on live at the same time? No i can’t.
In DF i can do that, i can get at the same time new combinations that aren’t possible on live.
I have more choice than on live.
I have more combinations than on live.
There will always be a META build, so shut up about that non-argument.
You either build what you want, or you don’t.
Yes, i can CUSTOMIZE my character how i want, for what fight i want, what content i want.
??
I already showed you how much you get extra for Blood and Feral.
Put up a live char versus a DF one and see the live one get dusted.
The only poor thing there is your ability to analyze and assess the new talent trees.
Relax, lol, we’re just having a conversation here.
Well, that is a problem in of itself. Borrowed power isn’t ideal, but it did give new expansions a breath of fresh air. Dragonflight walks a thin line of being “nothing new.” Even if there a few new combinations of spells, it’s not without giving up something else in return.
You don’t get Primal Swarn, Convoke, and Draught of Deep Focus, so there is some trade off.
You’re not adding to your live character, you’re trading. Which I get is a soft reset— “has to get worse before it can get better.”
But… there are easier and better ways to make that transition than what we’ve been shown.
But… it’s a vital argument when it comes to Talent Design and the Expansion “Feature.”
You’re selling an expansion with the idea of this very customizable talent tree, only for players to say “Spec this, or don’t get invited.”
You’re building up the hopes of your players only for them to be dashed— for no reason.
WoW has 40 specs, just make them interesting baseline without the unneeded risk of user error.
