Having the ““Talent Tree”” make people pick up abilities, spells, and passives they already have is the opposite of good design.
There is nothing worse feeling than logging in to your character on patch day and having your abilities removed, only to be made to pick them back up with the “talent tree” which is supposed to be the biggest and most game defining system of the entire expansion.
This is not the way. Do not do this. It is the worst possible implementation of at talent tree and completely defeats the entire purpose of it. You are digging a hole and burying yourself in it at the same time with this.
Talent trees are not meant to pick up your regular abilities and/or passive effects, they are there to augment, enhance, and specialize your character. You are doing this completely backwards.
This was my original fear when they first announced the talent trees and I have voiced my feedback on every avenue available as soon as they first announced that they were making talent trees again.
These are not talent trees. They are abominations. Please re design this nonsense.
It would be as if Warriors had to spend Talents to get Shield Block, Shield Wall, Demo Shout, Berserker Rage, etc. Those are just abilities they get. Now, people are forced to spend “talent points” to get them.
well isnt that how it works every expac they do this in swtor so nothing new, esp when classes get reworked . I think they did it this way so you can fully customize how you want your spec to play , what spells you want instead of cookie cutter talents .
Remember that you will log in at level 60, with several talent points available. It will likelt just take a few minutes to restore your character if you wish to do that.
Mate, this is how talent trees always worked. Theyre not going to leave your spellbook as it is now and somehow still have meaningful passives and abilities to pick from on the tree. As long as you arent forced to have less than you did after selecting your talents, its not an issue.
You mean like what happened with Shadowlands? A lot of classes/specs lost things they already had and had to re-earn it (if it was still available) after the level squish. Some of it was locked in the 51-60 range, meaning it was lost during prepatch until SL actually launched and folks could reach those levels.
I’m not a fan of taking things away to give them back as borrowed power. This isn’t that.
Having to pick your key passives and spec-defining abilities from the talent tree makes sense, provided 3 things happen:
You have at least a couple spec-defining abilities baseline when you choose a spec without spending any points. You should have different gameplay loops on Prot vs Arms vs Fury the moment you choose a spec at level 10.
You have enough points available to take all the passives you have now.
You aren’t forced to make mutually exclusive choices between utility abilities if you have them both baseline, either directly via choice talents, or indirectly via having the utility spread out throughout the tree without enough points to get both.
Provided those ideals are maintained, and they add some new and interesting talents to fill out the trees and give us some interesting choices, I think the new trees will be a big gain in the ability to customize your build, so every MM Hunter isn’t the same as every other MM Hunter.
I think it’s easy to go too far with this - Balance having to spec into Moonkin Form (which is now also available to any other Druid if they spend 3 points to get it) seems excessive, for example.
Thing is, it’s how they’re doing it. I brought up SL to remind people that this isn’t the first time they’ve done it, since people tend to forget that a lot of ‘new’ stuff is just recycling of things that have already happened. It’s why I didn’t even buy SL at all, and wouldn’t have bought BfA either if I’d realized it soon enough. Every expansion since Legion has just been the same ideas with different packaging. Expansions aren’t worth my money anymore until or unless that changes.
you seem to be worked up over nothing . pls provide a link that works . it does make sense . swtor makes u relearn talents you already had each time a new expac comes out also didnt wow do the same thing for bfa ? same concept .
First of all, when you spec Balance, you immediately get Starfire and Starsurge in your spellbook as free talents (e.g. they are in the tree but you don’t spend points on them if you are Balance). Also, your first Class point at level 10 should be spent in Moonkin Form (so you get an entirely new form and resource), and your first Spec point is spent on Eclipse, giving you a proc mechanic that no other spec gets. This gives the immediate differentiation between specs that I’m saying is necessary.
Second of all, without talent trees for more classes being released, we don’t know what passives will be in the tree and how they will be distributed. It is too soon to definitively state they have failed at that goal. Further, there will be an alpha (maybe?), a beta, a prepatch PTR, and a prepatch prior to DF release during which we can hammer the devs with feedback about things that suck and need to be changed. If it doesn’t meet your expectations by release, don’t buy it. Remember, NO PREORDERS!
Third, looking again at the Balance spec tree, there are a number of passive, some are currently baseline, some are conduits, some are old legendaries, etc. I haven’t played Balance in SL to know whether there are currently baseline things that are mutually exclusive with other currently baseline things, but if there are, call them out individually as such so it can be adjusted.
Also, from your chart, you are missing 7 points worth of baseline things you have now in Frost, while picking up 9 points worth of things from Unholy you didn’t have access to before. That doesn’t strike me as an issue, that strikes me as you making a choice and being annoyed you don’t simultaneously get all the things.
There was a thread about this already. A few actually. Didn’t need another one. The new talent tree is basically rolling your spell book and old talent tree into one (though you will still have the book to move abilities to your bar). It’s not a big deal.
