Nightfall debuff is way lower than 2PPM stated across the board from classic wowhead

WTB raid boss target dummies in Classic

Have Mats

Will Tip!


There are plenty of lv 61 and 62 normal mobs you can test on.

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level 63 is where they jump off of a cliff however…

ie: raid bosses

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I don’t understand.

just put in target dummies so we can test this stuff along with everything else simply and efficiently

I think what’s he’s saying is Raid Bosses (effective level 63) would have a higher resist.

I also did double check that raid night I linked the two fights from, and the Tank had only used Nightfall on two fights that night.

Nightfall hunter here,

After looking back through my logs of MC, BWL, and Ony, the proc is not a proc per minute , most of my fights have averaged out to 3 procs a min, but at the same time I have seen higher and I even had 1 fight where I proced 9 times in 1 min.

I did some open world testing on a very small scale, against lvl 54/55 mobs and found that just doing auto attacks had a very very low chance to proc the weapon, but spamming wingclip (as I do in raid) I was able to get 3 or 4 procs off on a single target in 30 seconds, which is clearly higher than the procs in raid (even against no movement fights).

Auto Attack only averaged out to 2-3 procs per min
Wing Clip spam averaged out to 6-8 (12 at the highest) per min
Raid bosses (wing clip spam) have averaged out to about 3 procs per min (highest was 9)

What this is saying is that raid bosses have a clear lower proc rate, and that the proc rate is not a flat proc per min, it is a chance on hit (would have to avg out the numbers).

correct PPM averages out according to your swing speed - aka Seal of Command is set at 7PPM which is then run through your base swing speed which gives you a chance on hit proc %

Sometime in 3.X-4.X blizzard introduced a system to manage PPM effects, I forget off hand what it was called, but it was a method to smooth out Low PPM effects. One of the side effects of this new system, was that Low PPM effects would proc on the first 1-3 hits with over 80% probability by the 3rd hit.

I did much research on this back in the day with others, and this would probably align with this miss-mashed system. IIRC the system was based around Time-Since-Last-Proc.

I might be able to find some old pictures I had of the proc curves and such, but they might also be available on EJ somewhere in my posts.

I assumed ‘less effective above level 60’ referenced the person wielding the weapon, not necessarily the target.

for crusader enchant that is correct, but they essentially work in the exact same manner by limiting the proc chance for each level above 60 for the player in the case of crusader enchant and the target in the case of nightfall

Can you not test it on the drake outside the caverns of time?

I don’t recall him hitting that hard and Iirc he is a raid boss.

you can but he hits like a truck doesnt he?

it would make everyone’s lives so much simpler if they just put in raid boss target dummies - they’re in retail and you can spawn them on the p server repacks

it won’t break the game or no changes philosophy by bringing them to classic

as it is, people are getting fed up with all this bs for having to test a continual beta for blizzard…

PenguinbasherYesterday at 11:56 PM

NF was absolutely awful for me tonight dude
our chrom kill was 3:10 and I got… TWO PROCS
One was actually knocked off after 3s and then I got another right after
3:10 kill with my first proc at 2:35
2 PPM should have been 6 procs without any effort. I got TWO
blizzard has truly scuffed classic, and sadly I think there are too many casuals who are “fine” with it since they are having fun since these issues don’t effect them

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ugh at all this 10 characters

for what its worth, Paladins aren’t the worst hit by all of this…

GideonAIToday at 4:42 PM

I actually know a Nightfall Hunter who just finished testing 1,200 hits (600 regular, 600 Wing Clip) and timed them all to land in the same batch, he got 39 procs out of those 1,200 hits for a grand total PPM of 0.5 (3% chance-on-hit)

ThelorasToday at 4:42 PM


GideonAIToday at 4:42 PM

Pretty much confirmed that batching acts negatively on the Nightfall

ThelorasToday at 4:43 PM

against BL mobs?

GideonAIToday at 4:43 PM


10 characters

FYI here is the FIZZLE mechanic that came with legacy vanilla items when used in later xpacs:

Reckless Charge
30 yd range
Requires level 1
Charge an enemy, knocking it silly for 30 seconds. Also knocks you down, stunning you for a short period of time. Any damage caused will revive the target.
Chance to fizzle when used against targets over level 60.

ThelorasToday at 6:00 PM

does warcraftlogs or procscience calculate fizzles?!?!?
if in fact we do have the TBC 2.4.2 version of Nightfall, this could very well be how it shows up, but obviously if neither WCL or ProcScience are setup to calculate or log the event, then it wouldn’t show up correct?

Crea - AtieshToday at 6:03 PM

Theloras–that would be correct. Logs are not capturing Fizzles.

ThelorasToday at 6:04 PM

then i think it might be safe to say…

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29 days after my last post and still no blue lol

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anywho, I wanted to post this for just how lol Nightfall is on Classic:

VexrToday at 3:43 PM
By far the most random NF raid for me was this MC:
I’m pretty sure my guild is keen on me sticking with NF no matter what, so nice to see it can knock the ball outta the park now and then (and try to ignore the whiffs) :slight_smile:


I’ve thrown the 2 NF axes I made for the guild in the bank and just went holy until AQ when our damage and mage damage is scaling better. Its a real shame we’ve had no reply on this at all, it seems like it would be an easy fix to make.