It is a matter of canon. Elves are highly intelligent beings, as is typical for most fantasy settings. No one would argue that Trolls tend to be stronger than most races, but the moment someone claims elves are smarter, people lose their minds. Cry some more, is canon.
No, the fantasy trope is that they are magically adept and smug about it, have had a long time to build their culture, but adapt poorly to changing circumstances.
I'm not talking stat numbers, I'm talking narrative tropes. Elven magic is generally a big huge thing (noted exception in the Obsidian trilogy[Lackey and Mallory], which I encourage you to read if you have not already; I think you'd like it), but they aren't usually actually faster learners, or more adept at general reasoning.
As an aside, we've had people literally claim, on this very forum, that humans are or tend to be stronger than trolls.
This is a misconception. The Night Elves symbol is the Icon of Wisdom. An icon they chose to represent themselves, and represent their value of wisdom and willingness to learn from the mistakes of the past to build a better future.
Elves are of a higher intelligence than most other races. trolls included. It is canon. Cry about it.
No, the fantasy trope is that they... adapt poorly to changing circumstances.
Please note what I actually wrote, and the context therein. You made an inaccurate comment about a fantasy trope, and I corrected you. The elves of Warcraft actually do better than most elves in the face of 'cultural center and touchstone destroyed' situations, but most of the troll tribes have to deal with those every couple of centuries, if not more often.
Can we agree to be collegial about this? No moral point is in contention, no lives are at stake; we can absolutely disagree on this without either of us being bad people.
ou made an inaccurate comment about a fantasy trope
No I didn't
You did. There's no trope about elves being super smart. The trope is about them having ancient, well-established cultures and a strong magical tradition.
You did. There's no trope about elves being super smart. The trope is about them having ancient, well-established cultures and a strong magical tradition.
Mhm, that's why they get int bonuses in every fantasy RPG, and ancient knowledge that no one else has. Kay....
You did. There's no trope about elves being super smart. The trope is about them having ancient, well-established cultures and a strong magical tradition.
Mhm, that's why they get int bonuses in every fantasy RPG, and ancient knowledge that no one else has. Kay....
Please take your bias elsewhere, it's exhausting.
Not every. Arcanis had five flavors of elves, and one of them had the exact same modifiers as Half-Orcs. Neither edition of the WOW RPG gave Int bonuses to Night Elves, the first had a -2 penalty to Intelligence assigned to them. And after all it takes an elf 5 times as long as a Human to mature!
You did. There's no trope about elves being super smart. The trope is about them having ancient, well-established cultures and a strong magical tradition.
Mhm, that's why they get int bonuses in every fantasy RPG, and ancient knowledge that no one else has. Kay....
Please take your bias elsewhere, it's exhausting.
"Ancient knowledge" couldn't possibly come from an "ancient, well-established culture," could it?
The "shared" elf racial attribute bonus in 5e D&D is Dexterity, as was the one for the core book elf races in 2e, 3.0 and 3.5. Elf was a class in 1e. In 4e, the Eladrin had an intelligence bonus, but the race actually called "elves" did not. In Shadowrun, their attribute bonuses are Agility and Charisma.
Don't have Victoriana books on hand, so I can't speak to that, likewise Shadow of the Demon Lord.
Out of curiosity, what games are you thinking of? It's possible that we've just been playing completely different sets of games.
As for literature, I can't think of any off the top of my head (other than the ludicrous wreck that was Eragon) where the elves are just... smarter. Writers don't tend to do that, because it becomes tiresome, both to write the rest of your characters dumb enough to show it off, and for the reader to deal with. They are generally long-lived and often had a head start on civilization, relative to other races in a given setting, and frequently have a societal focus on magic (or have just been doing it long enough that they are the de facto experts, except when surpassed by Human Potential)
The idea that Night Elves came from Trolls didn't start floating around until vanilla WoW.
And I think even then it didn't make it into the game until Alterac Valley was released, and Night Elf NPCs sent Alliance players on a quest to kill Trolls as revenge for this "clearly untrue" rumour.
...Not that AV ever had high quality writing. Drek'thar was written as an idiot in the Horde AV rule book. The Tauren sent Horde players out to kill Gnomes and collect tufts of their hair to see if that's what made them smart. Bewildered Gnomes sent Alliance Players out to kill Tauren because they didn't understand why they were getting mugged and losing their hair.
That particular lore is not even accurate! Even back in Wacraft 3!
From Warcraft 3 own manual!!:
The Titans empowered a number of races to help them fashion the world. To help them dredge out the fathomless caverns beneath the earth, they created the dwarves from magical, living stone. To help them dredge
out the seas and lift the land from the sea floor, they created the
immense, but gentle sea giants. For many ages the Titans moved
and shaped the earth, until at last, there remained only one perfect continent. At the continentâs center, the Titans crafted a lake
of scintillating energies. The lake, that they named the Well of
Eternity, was to be the fount of life for the world. Its potent energies would nurture the bones of the world and empower life to
take root in the landâs rich soil. Over time, plants, trees, monsters
and creatures of every kind began to thrive on the primordial continent. As twilight fell on the final day of their labors, the Titans
named the continent Kalimdor â âland of a eternal starlight.â
Satisfied that the small world had been ordered and that their
work was done, the Titans prepared to leave Azeroth behind. Yet,
before they departed, they decided to empower the greatest
newborn species of the world to watch over Kalimdor should any
force ever threaten its perfect tranquility. Each remaining member
of the Pantheon imbued a portion of its power to the five great
dragons awoken in that mythic age. Alexstrasza the Life-Binder,
Malygos the Spell-Weaver, Ysera the Dreamer, Nozdormu the
Timeless, and Neltharion the Earth-Warder were all empowered
by the Titansâ vast powers and charged with the worldâs defense.
With the dragons prepared to safeguard their creation, the Titans
left Azeroth behind forever. Unfortunately for them, and the small,
newborn world they had shaped, it was only a matter of time
before Sargeras learned of its existenceâŚ
This is not even a retcon so much as lore that was used to hype the game. As I recall this was from Mojo StormStoutâs guide, which was focused with THE GAME first before the lore!
Boy, I wasnât expecting this thread to resurface.
While weâre on the topic of people who use the outdated WC3 lore, I should let you know that I once had an argument with a man who demanded that Crusader Bridenbrad was non-canon because Warcraft III said Paladins are immune to disease. Never mind how literally nothing but that outdated nugget from a promo site contradicts it.
But I digress - Jawah, if youâre still here on an alt of whatever, know that deliberately reading old and outdated lore over new and organized lore from over ten years later makes this thread kind of a moot point. You have the answer already, and youâve opted to reject it because you donât like it.
In short, youâre trying to make sense of old stuff in present day, without acknowledging how the old stuff changed.