Of course I want to kill orcs. I want to kill all of them. Saurfang and Thrall included.
Blizzard did Teldrassil and I want a just as epic comeback.
Its not my fault. Its blizzard’s.
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I think the Orcs also get screwed pretty badly. They seldom get positive development. Besides the Forsaken, if the Horde is doing something villainous its going to a bunch of Orcs (and Goblins, but atleast Gazlowe is an awesome dude). If Mists wasn’t repeated and Vol’jin remained Warchief, that expansion could have remained the “test of Orc’s character” story and let them grow in positive ways, not regress back for the rehash. I know ultimately they are people, basically humans with a different culture and background, who can be flawed just like real world ones. However, it still feels like the narrative has done too much to make Daelin Proudmoore seem right all along.
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Well you’re not going to get to, and you’re wasting everyone’s time here if you’re just going to tunnel vision and ignore everything else.
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You do understand that part of this factor is just how absurd the original NE power fantasy was don’t you? To some degree, conceptually, they exist in a completely sepererate genre of fantasy than most other PC races. On top of this, very few instances of them getting “kicked” are really them getting “kicked”. I’m also unsure what rewards you think the Horde will be getting from this expansion beyond getting spared by the Alliance and having key lore characters killed off?
Outside of the Horde, almost ALL of the major conflicts the NEs have revolved mistakes from their past coming back to haunt them. There is a reason the vast majority of enemies that have actually “hurt” the NEs have been either Demi-Gods; Demons; or corrupted variants of themselves.
Elven immortality was also never meant as a reward, it was meant to support the NEs vigil of the second WoE (a decision that Nosdormu clearly came to regret); a mess that the Aspects had to clean up for the NEs (just like Teldrassil, when it started to become corrupted). Staghelm; the Nightmare; the conflict with the Horde (caused by the NEs under Cenarius when he tried to eradicate the Warsong clan due to sensing Fel Taint in them) … all mistakes of the NEs past. Hell … their treatment of the Highborne after the Sundering is also overdue for Karma.
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Ignore what else?
Blizzard presented a trope of terrible tragedy and rather than address it they are trying back peddle and completely ignore it.
If you are into that narrative then please by all means go ahead and enjoy it and advocate for it as you are now.
I won’t be participating with that exercise.
Horde wiping out Alliance cities and “winning” all the time but still being the good guys. Apparently.
The whole Alliance experience has so far been a massive downer as soon as it approaches anything related to the faction war.
Meanwhile on the Horde side it is a constant upbeat war drum beat.
Terror of Darkshore was supposed to be “our” moment and it was a categorical failure on all fronts in its presentation.
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Nothing in what you quoted shows Amadis advocating this expansions terrible story.
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Obviously, I don’t speak for the Night Elf playerbase, but I’d say a large part of the discontent is due to the crawling pace of story developments. Things don’t advance quickly enough in real world time so we linger in these forlorn states.
Teldrassil was destroyed and we’ve been sitting on that since before Battle for Azeroth. Hoping for the upswing in our narrative would alleviate some of the sting of that event. Terror of Darkshore sets up the unjaded for positive development and then that is ultimately a let down and seemingly our final part to play this expansion.
So there’s no resolution in sight and we’re sitting here festering in Stormwind in-game and in dwindling anticipation in real life. If we knew where things were going, it wouldn’t be so bad. But we’re still left with the hope that our dudes will have some justice when these narrative threads are done. And no, not just seen by eyes other than ours. I wanna see it.
I don’t begrudge my fellow Night Elf players their desire for (disproportionate?) retribution because it’s a cathartic exercise. We - all of us on this forum - are very much aware how little these discussions will alter Blizzard’s decisions and narrative.
Me coming here and listing my top 100 reasons Sylvanas and Nathanos should be crushed under the Red Keep isn’t going to register.
I’m not unsympathetic to the Honorable Horde players; believe me, I know it sucks to have your guys dragged through the mud. Night Elves just get dragged to different kinds of mud (usually by the Horde!) as Amadis points out.
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To be fair, I do support the war overall, and even Sylvanas’s original plan of consolidating Horde control of Kalimdor.
But Sylvanas was always the “pragmatic” leader, and she’s just making a lot of really stupid decisions. Like burning Teldrassil instead of sticking to the original plan for the invasion.
Or the fact that she hasn’t realized that “Oh, the fallout of this stupid Derek plan is going to cost me the support of the entire Tauren race. And my plan to execute Baine is going to cost me even more support.”
She seems to be operating under the impression that swift and brutal punishment is going to dissuade further rebellion, but she’s supposed to be smart enough to understand that that’s not how Horde characters react to things!
I don’t think she’s doing a bad job because she’s being brutal, I think the’s doing a bad job because she’s being really dumb about it, when she’s supposed to be the clever one.
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Where do you see us being good guys? Blizz has wrote themselves so deep into a corner with Teldrassil they’ve resorted to largely ignoring it; rather than deal with the consequences of it (a key consequence being they’ve stapled the cremation of thousands of innocents alive onto the Horde faction … no matter how hard they try to push that blame on Sylvie).
We went from Side-Kicks in Legion, to being villains and hapless sods in BfA (solely because Blizz intends to probably have Sylvie’s personal narrative lead into the next expansion; so HER story is coming at the expense of BOTH the Horde AND Alliance right now).
Blizz needs Sylvanas to get done what she needs to get done; so the Horde leaders that SHOULD have moved against her right after Teldrassil get to sit on their hands (and their characters tarnished) waiting for when they are allowed to move against her (for plot convenience). This is the same with the Alliance holding back … its just as much about letting Sylvie succeed in what she’s doing; as it is about trying to find an out for the Horde Faction.
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The Horde is not at all presented as the good guys in this expansion, as a whole at least.
It presents a rebellion forming, but Sylvanas’ actions (the lady who was the one who would be having civilians slaughtered, not Saurfang) at the end of War of Thorns is not meant to be seen as good at all for Horde players.
The Horde is told they are likely to lose in a few weeks after the raid that ends in the death of a powerful Troll figure and most of the fleet they were trying to get.
The biggest military success of this expansion for the Horde has been the 8.2 fleet destruction, but is also the patch about Sylvanas betraying us.
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Hey i dont begrudge you for supporting the war as a thing that could happen. Just s lot of blood elves are oddly die hard sylvsnas supporters even more do than forsaken.
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See the many cinematic mini-movies of saurfang being sad, alliance being incapable and now the in-game cinematic Crossroads.
It is clearly for the Horde playerbase because I see nothing that appeals to me.
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Did you just say the Horde is depicted as the good guys in the faction war? In BfA? Have you actually played this expansion?
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I think they see the horde as saurfang horde i dont know
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Yes I have and I have had my head pounded in by all the commercial material and andiun “But what about the Horde’s feelings?!”.
Its like a constant barrage of “Yeah they kill us but look how sorry they look. Surely they are good people. You should feel bad fighting them”
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Y’know what would have been nice … being able to actually PLAY any of that content. As wonderful as those cinematics were (though I’ll be damned if Saurfang isnt just a green pallet swap of the WoD Garrosh cinematic model with some added wrinkles; cannot unsee) … we Horde that are supposed to be siding with him … have very little justification to actually side with him (if not for Meta knowledge). HIS story needed a whole lot more nuance than Blizzard was clearly willing to invest (and were compensating for that with the cinematics).
And no … those cinematics aren’t for you. Just as I suspect that any content of the other Alliance races isn’t really for you (or any cinematic with Jaina or Anduin). I despise how the NE storyline is being used in BfA (its a women in refrigerators trope on steriods); but I will at least enjoy seeing Hi-Rez Nagrand while I can.
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You do understand that I do not have to see the absurd power fantasy of the Night Elves as negative the way you do, right? You do realize you can point this out as much as you want and I can just go “I know. It’s all really cool, isn’t it?” You can go on about how you feel like the Horde is low fantasy and doesn’t actual hold a candle to the Night Elves’ levels all you want, but it won’t change what I like about the Night Elves.
Rewards? I don’t think the Horde is getting anything out of this. I have no idea how you would think that I would think that Blizzard has any intention on the Horde coming out feeling good from BfA after the content it’s gotten. I literally refuse to play my Horde characters because BfA is so bad.
Everything that makes the Horde players enjoy the Horde.
Please go ahead and misconstrue me all you want. I’ve already covered well that I don’t enjoy the current story nor am I advocating for it. If you want to ignore that, by all means, please just keep talking to yourself then.
Constant upbeat? The Horde literally fails at everything they do in their War Campaign. After the War of the Thorns the Horde has gotten nothing but a successive chain of failures as everything they have tried has either been discarded or turns against them.
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Which doesn’t change the fact that Blizzard has written BfA to be about how the Horde are the bad guys. We feel bad because we were hit with the villain bat yet again. We have to fight another corrupt Warchief, yet again.
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No only Sylvanas is.
Apparently the Horde is as pure as the first snows on christmas eve.