I agree with that.
Problem is Blizzard doesn’t like making it ambiguous.
They leave what is evil and what is heroic pretty clear cut.
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You have to remember WOW’s target market. It’s not one that’s assumed to be capable of, or interested in nuance.
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In regards to Sylvannas:
This is a collection of quotes from Horde avatars posting in this thread alone.
The thread was actually falling off the rails around post #97. My first post of the night realigned the thread by taking the information given and purposing a second offer to one of the main groups.
“I do not think that word means what you think that word means.”
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When I said “The horde will attack again” your response was “well what about Genn? He attacked the Horde!”
Thats whataboutism.
You mean 3 people?
Why don’t you quote the hundreds of other Horde posters that have been clamouring the death of Saurfang, Baine and anyone else that has looked at Andiun’s general direction?
Hey, trust me on this … nothing would please more than the more unstable, volatile elements of the Horde to wither away. What I want is a stable Horde with leaders who care first and foremost for their people; ONLY that. Granted, I do have vain hopes for Blightcaller (in that, I do see he is conceptually a great representative of what the Forsaken are) … but it would take something horrific to jar him loose from Sylvie enough for him to be salvageable.
Beyond that:
- Gazlowe should replace Wix as Trade Prince.
- Rokhan should become the official leader of the Darkspear.
- Saurfang CANNOT be allowed to take the easy way out with a quick death, and must live a life of service and penance for his mistakes.
- Thrall would make a decent enough Warchief now that he’s admitting his mistakes (if not yet taking ownership of them yet).
- Vol’jin should become a full on Loa and (along with Bwon) become a binding agent between the Horde Troll factions.
But … I will get none of this if the NE playerbase gets what they want; because despite them losing a LOT on a STORY level (yet conceptually VERY LITTLE on a META level) … they intend to destroy the Horde faction on a META level (if not necessarily a STORY level). NE players know exactly what the consequences of killing off a mass of our remaining A and B listers as penance for Teldrassil will be; even if the Horde Faction survives. The faction will be rendered into total irrelevancy for future stories due to an extreme lack of representation (like in Legion). This is a punishment designed to hurt the Horde PLAYERS, just as much as it is to hurt the Horde FACTION.
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Good. Maybe this time my faction would get some attention too.
Honestly I did not think of it that way but this sounds like a win-win scenario.
Seriously? Nothing like 3 Zones, 5 dungeons and 2 raids devoted directly to (or passively to) the Lore of NEs in Legion to just scream “Horde Bias” huh? Oh no, NE players didn’t like Xavius Malf acting like a goof! None of that content counts!
How about the Orcs simply NOT EXISTING when fighting the very beings that corrupted them; turned them into monsters; and destroyed their world? Pshh … so much Horde Focus there. How about Horde representatives having ANY presence for nearly TWO YEARS in that expansion? I guess there was Liadrin in Surumar … and … who again? Oh … right Baine got cut from Highmountain, and Sylvie’s presence had absolutely nothing to do with fighting the Legion!
Who were we following around for that entire expansion? Oh … “Neutral Characters” like:
- Kadghar (leader of the Kirin Tor, an Alliance Organization)
- Magni (previous King of IF, father and brother to two of its current leaders)
- Velen (leader of the Draenei)
- Tyrande and Malfurion (helping deal with their problems in the Emerald Dream)
- Turalyon and Alleria (Alliance Heroes of the 2nd War)
- Hell, even Illidan has me delivering good-bye letters to his waifu and brother (even if he is just about the most neutral of this squad).
- Best of all, on Argus … I take more orders from friggen Vareesa (PURGE THE HORDE) Windrunner than I do the TWO faction reps I have on that planet (Aethas and Liadrin).
But … no. Scream some more about how the Alliance has it so bad being forced to hold back against at a faction forced to play the aggressors in a war we are constantly told we could never hope to win; because Blizzard decided they wanted to Villain Bat us again, without actually dealing with the MASSIVE power imbalance between the Alliance and Horde before they committed to this.
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Apparently Darkshore was our “revenge”
The Horde is getting a far superior intro to the new zones with their night borne meanwhile the Alliance gets Jaina again.
Why even bother playing Alliance at this point?
Btw are you forgetting Cataclysm, MoP, WoD was all about the Horde and its characters?
The focus moves away from the horde juuuust barely for one patch in legion and you lose your mind over it.
Except the Nightborne as a PC race is a mess mechanically, with Blizz doing a SUPER lazy job on them; and it makes TOTAL sense that they would become buddy buddy with the Blood Elves (over the Kaldorei). If you’re being honest with yourself and play BOTH sides of the Surumar Campaign (Horde and Alliance) its subtle … but there is some VERY stark contrasts with how the NEs and HEs interact with the NBs (and how the BEs interact with them).
But … because I guess the Horde retroactively getting “Horde Content” because of our Legion ARs, somehow invalidates two years of just being side-kicks in our own stories?
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You realize the Alliance has been complaining about this issue since cataclysm.
You just got a taste of it in legion when the focus was not on your faction for the first time in years.
Your complaints ring very hollow right now.
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I’m getting as tired of these generalizations as I am of disruption mongers like Hetaera. You might as well say all the Horde playerbase wants the same thing as Cailias.
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What did you call me?
A disruption monger. I possibly just made that term up. But your type annoys me. Running around screaming that the only way you’ll be happy will be to get something that will never be given in ending the Horde, ending the game, etc., instead of contributing anything of actual value.
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Anyways warfront in mulgore sure let the horde blight one of their zones into a wasteland will be funny.
You want constructive?
In the next 8 months we will have several more events that will hammer in:
- Horde is good. They feel bad so thats ok.
- Alliance storylines are forgotten because “we made up”
- N’zoth has to be taken down.
Queue the next expansion.
Next expansion.
- Alliance licks its wounds. We get neutral hubs again with both factions walking around like nothing happened.
- Big bad does some big damage to the Alliance and the Horde. But the Horde one is of course miniscule.
- Horde and Alliance get into another pvp war like Ashran.
- Alliance and Horde work together again and defeat big bad.
Was this constructive enough for you?
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Fair enough, and sorry about that. I will admit I am losing sympathy for the NE playerbase plight a little bit. I want more than anything for them to get some level of justice for what was done to them; but at the same time I can’t overlook that the Horde playerbase didn’t ask to be put through this nonsense. And I suppose I’ve never really understood WHY the NEs felt they were getting beat up before now (at least proportionally to other PC races … its about even).
On paper, the presence of NEs in Legion and Cata really wasn’t that bad (goofy at times sure, but not that bad objectively with what they accomplished for their personal narratives; dealing with Staghelm AND the Nightmare). MoP was probably the most heartless towards the NEs (man, the parallels now) … and BfA has been unkind (but even during the WoT, steps are taken to preserve their power fantasy to some degree … with Sentinels fighting 8 to 1 odds and still managing to kill off more Horde troops before getting pushed back).
Not to mention, I don’t think that there is a single PC race more brutalized than the Darkspear. I mean, these guys just get murdered wholesale in the lore; and in game; and their ONLY reward EVER (Vol’jin getting a Warchief title that their PC race TRULY earned) … was squandered (and their only developed representative killed off by Trash Mob; leaving them rudderless and irrelevant for several years now). But … I rarely (if ever) see these sorts of threads from Darkspear players who feel they’ve been given a raw deal (ironically, I’ve seen more threads rightly asking how the Darkspear aren’t extinct yet than complaint threads).
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I wonder how everyone isnt extinct yet personally
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Perhaps I should have titled the thread towards Darkspear players instead.
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Imagine your grand dad gave you a bike.
And every day your cousin comes in and kicks it until he breaks it.
But according to your grand dad he didn’t mean to. So you have to forgive him.
Next summer he breaks your walkman in the same way.
Your grand dad again tells you your cousin feels bad about it.
And you should forgive him. Your cousin gets to keep his bike and walkman though.
We can’t punish the cousin by taking his stuff because they belong to his little sister too.
Too bad for you.
2 Likes
It’s at least a criticism of the story and its repetition, so, yes, at least that’s something more than “I want to kill all Orcs and I hope the game dies.”
Because you seem to very rigidly adhere to what you can tally up on paper instead of the flaws on how the Night Elves are used in the narrative despite how much content we get. Here’s an old summery I wrote up once:
Add Azshara and Nazjatar on top of that, and whatever else we might be left out of for BfA.
The rest of your point I agree with. But the plight of any of the other playable races is also irrelevant to the plight of the Night Elves, no matter how right you are about them.