Neither are the Horde, by this logic.
I also don’t agree with this logic.
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Honestly, I would be totally on board with this “Alliance” getting its teeth kicked in. Not so much that it removes a large swath of important lore characters (after all, even Blizz did not have the guts to kill off anyone beyond a pair of C-Rankers on the NEs side) … but enough to have that catastrophic emotional weight. Perhaps our little “allying-up” fails us this time?
BfA (if nothing else) is Sylvanas’ story. Whatever Blizz has planned for her, it will cause her to cease to be a member of the Horde (and usher in A future expansion, if not THE next expansion). Its part of why I’m fairly convinced it will be revealed that HER motives (not the ones she gave Saurfang) for this war and burning that Tree were something altogether personal (not for the Horde).
If Blizz intends to use that as an excuse to try to foist the lion’s share of the blame for this mess on the crazy lady; then it would at least help if she subjected the Horde Faction to a sizable fragment of the pain that she used the Horde to inflict on the Kaldorei. The Horde NEEDS to take a MASSIVE hit from Sylvanas … on top of some reasonable punishments from the Kaldorei afterwards.
EDIT: Just … go easy on our representative base Blizz. You’re really scraping the bottom of the barrel, and at least in regards to Saurfang its about damned time ONE old Orc realizes that a quick death is NOT atonement; its an easy escape from the hard work it takes to even attempt it. “Live Another Day” and “We Don’t Get to Hide” … give meaning to these expensive hi-rez messages.
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Did you mean the Horde getting its teeth kicked in?
Well, I sort of meant “Alliance of Convenience” we’re currently building up … so I guess BOTH factions (with the exception of the NEs by the looks of it). Essentially, its SoO … but we’re cruising for a bruising (with the Horde taking a HUGE beating). Lets see Sylvie do something nuts, like Blighting Orgrimmar instead of hitting TB (I mean, its in an old river bed … if any place would suffer catastrophic issues due to a gas attack, it would be that bowl of a Capital City).
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A horrifying realization of how they’ve been made complicit in her wider schemes would be fine. (Along with whatever penalties would be imposed on their state afterward.)
Suicide is the easy way out; Saurfang probably realized this already, but it’s a convenient way to martyr a character, absconding them of any penalties or true atonement, so it’s still a likely path for him. But it would be a poor end to his current story: die valiantly to protect the Horde, instead of living valiantly to rebuild what they’ve destroyed.
I’ve stated my personal wants as a Kaldorei player before. But it’s a simple return of our land and eviction of trespassers.
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I had a shower thought regarding this earlier today. The two most common desires players have voiced in this thread are first: to kill at least a city’s worth of Horde civilians in addition to a varying list of characters. And second: to regain their lost territory as noncontested.
I wondered how well it would be received by alliance players, Night elves inparticular, if the Horde managed to return to its natural roots and actually did return Ashenvale to the Night Elves and backed out of Darkshore.
With less wood being used in Orgimmar’s achitecture and machinery in general across Azeroth, the orcs would have less of a need for Ashenvale’s forest. Perhaps it isn’t even profitable to fight over the resources the land provides anymore. That said, I was thinking of proposing this from a perspective of morals.
Without the vast need for lumber the Horde once had and the rebel Horde’s cooperation with the Alliance and opposition towards Sylvannas, once they regain control of the Horde, what if they struck a treaty with the Night Elves? The treaty would return Ashenvale to them while removing all Horde bases and forces within including Darkshore.
The factions would reach out to the Cenarian Circle and Earthen Ring requesting assistence for their own druids and shamans in regrowing the forests and healing damage done to the earth in both areas. After these projects’ are complete, the collective focuses on removing the corruption within Felwood. Upon completion, the area is turned over to the Night Elves under the same conditions as Ashenvale and Darkshore.
Finally, trade would be opened between Ashenvale and Orgimmar, providing a sufficient amount of affordable lumber to the city and its citizens while providing the city’s trade goods to the reconstructing Night Elven society.
This solution wouldn’t sate the majority’s blood lust but it would provide a lasting peace based upon common goals and prosperity for those involved.
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We have done that before.
It led to this:
The Horde druids should probably be expelled from the cenarion circle.
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Last I checked, in that cinematic, Sylvannas was the leader of the Horde and ex-scourge, dictatorial, narcissist in kahoots with a late enemy of her nation. Not what I would call a, “return to its natural roots.”
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You mean this?
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Sure! Vol’jin was a humble founding member of the Horde who demonstrated fierce loyalty to his people and allies, interacted and worked with the Alliance multiple times in order to bring peace, and spearheaded the previous rebel Horde in order to stop it’s last dictator. Vol’jin would have actually been the perfect leader to take on such a proposal.
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Ok? So?
The Alliance gave Horde a chance. They elected Voljin and 2 expansions later the “honorable” horde committed yet another mass genocide.
Why are you so convinced this honourable Horde exists? It doesn’t. All roads lead back to massacres.
It happened with Garrosh.
It happened with Sylvanas.
It will happen again because blizzard is painfully predictable.
Jaina was right in that cinematic. Dismantle the Horde.
No more Horde. No more problems.
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“So?” Nothing. You purposed Vol’jin as a favorable leader to Sylvannas to which I agreed.
I never claimed that one does exist. Actually, I currently think the contrary. The Horde is treacherous under Sylvannas.
No doubt. When writing out my idea I considered adding onto the end that this would also give the next monster the writers put in charge a chance to break the treaty and kick off the next faction war/filler expansion.
Dismantling the horde would do no one any good. I mean what are you going to do with all those thousands of people? Lock mothers and their children in concentration camps? Not to mention the sheer cost of keeping so many people locked up securely. The the cost of the internment of the orcs was one of the big factors that began the fracture of the first Alliance of Loaderon.
The actual solution is pretty meta: Blizzard needs to stop forcing the horde to do terrible things because they adore self discovery of the “true honorable horde” the expense of the Alliance as a narrative design. Neither side’s players benefit from it.
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No I did not. I just said no matter who you put in charge the Horde will inevitable kill innocent people.
And Thrall (Icecrown)
And Garrosh (Cata war and Mop)
And Voljin (Ashran)
And Sylvanas (BFA)
Pretty much ever horde leader has been treacherous.
Alright finally we are on the same page finally. All this talk of peace is just a pause until the Horde attacks again.
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Which is why of course it can’t be allowed to happen. The game is predicated on unending hatred and tension between the two factions.
The Horde is a confederation of different races. Dismantling the horde means you break up that confederation.
Preferably I would have had the gnomes just gas every Horde city and hunt its survivors. But apparently thats evil. I don’t see the Horde any differently than I would Legion so I don’t get it but whatever.
But otherwise they stay where they are but if they try to ally or themselves under one banner again the Alliance just attacks one member and wipes them out.
I would argue the Horde is benefiting plenty from it.
Just look at OP. He is convinced the Horde is honourable… like I just don’t understand how he can come to that conclusion.
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…genocide is sort of evil yes, and not really a thing any of the Alliance races do. Even the Kaldorei in their current state would not want to wage that sort of war.
The horde is supposed to be Honorable and Heroic, in theory. The actions blizzard has made them do since Cataclysm has sort of been… not heroic nor honorable, normally. But the OG concept was of the honorable-but-misunderstood outcast. That is what a lot of Horde players still want it seems like, and what blizzard keeps teasing them with then making them stooges for another mustache twirler.
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That may have been what you meant to imply but you actually said:
To which I responded accordingly.
Fighting a war, as unpleasant as it may be, is not treacherous.
I think we have been more so than you realized, despite your straw-man argument regarding the Horde’s crimes.
Or Genn breaks another peace treaty in the middle of another Legion invasion or something.
Given the attitude of the Horde players, including OP, I doubt very much they would enjoy that.
They love the villainous actions, what they don’t like seems to be told that it is wrong.
Kind of like the Horde NPCs really.
Seems like you have abandoned the premise of your thread and the whataboutism arguments have begun.
Heroism and Villainy are mainly a matter of perspective.