It doesn’t matter… Your PC is not the canon PC… and in the canon, those civilians were killed, and we KNOW the Horde PC was the one who did it.
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That is not true. The canon does not state the Horde PC killed anyone. All in game quests points to the Horde champion being ordered not to kill civilians and not killing civilians.
All the civilian deaths are laid at the hands of various NPCs and in one instance, Night Elves intentionally staging an ambush by making it look like dead Sentinels are slain civilians.
The spirit of the quest was deliberately malleable so that you could execute the quest by the nature of the character. (there are very very few quests in game that give you this kind of choice, and so I played it as the character would choose.
My Blood Elf warlock is infamous among the Earthen Ring Horde community for her hatred of Night Elves above all other races in the Alliance. Since she had so many deaths by Night Elf NPCs, I decided that Night Elf hate would be a major drive for this character. (Draenei are a close second) She chose her targets because she wanted to inflict pain among the Kal’dorei. And since the plan gave her that option, she took it.
So she might have to face the consequences of her choice? I don’t see that as a problem. THAT’S GOOD. Actions should have consequences.
Despite this, she was not happy when out of the blue, Teldrassil suddenly winds up in flames. It’s not that she’s stopped hating the Kal’dorei, it’s more of a matter of emotions becoming… complicated. I had high hopes for the Horde story at that point. Hopes which were not met.
And as I’ve stated before. there is no one single canon even in the game. The game presents different canons for both Alliance and Horde players that contradict each other. There’s also the personal canon for each individual game player. And then there are the novella canons. Which reflect that changes were made in the released content after the novellas were written.
Yes, the quest does allow you to kill civilians, even though you are explicitly directed by Saurfang not to do, and following Saurfang is the default/canon ending. The spirit and text also assume you don’t.
Sure, one can assume they don’t do it, just as one can assume that instead of saving any civilians during the burning of Teldassil, the Alliance champion instead just runs around laughing in sadistic glee until the timer runs out. Of course that’s obviously not what happened… but it could be.
And hey, that’s your Blood Elf warlock. There were some Horde who killed civilians. Many were Sylvanas loyalists up until the end and never supported Saurfang. And they were not properly taken to task in the moment by their siblings in arms.
But that’s very different from every single soldier in question personally killed civilians at Darkshore/Teldrassil, or even that they went to Darkshore/Teldrassil with the intention/desire to kill civilians.
A lot of people do/don’t do stuff in quests for various reasons. But acting like an optional thing that can be done, despite being told it’s not to be done, that’s not even a contributing factor to the quest, and flies in the face of the rest of the canon run- is to be treated like the thing that officially happened in story?
It most certainly was a contributing factor in the quest. The quest says you need to kill X amount of Night Elves. The quest is unusual in that it gives you a choice of targets.
I would argue that the Choice itself is the true spirit of that quest. It’s a quest that’s as much to define your character as it is for completing another goal.
No, the civilians don’t contribute to the number of Night Elves you’re asked to kill, as you’re told to take out military defenders. In fact, you’re given a quest at the same time to save X number of civilians.
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Alliance side the civilian NPCs were missing. Their bodies weren’t there, dead or alive.
Elegy has an entirely different canon where the Horde did not attack Astranaar.
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Not when I played through it.
Well that’s a pretty glaring blunder on Blizzard’s part.
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You don’t know that as you specifically stated that you did not take that option on ANY of your Horde characters. I’m telling you that not only that I did, but the game specifically had both a response from your companion NPC for making that choice, and that civvie’s death counted for the quest total.
So yes, Blizzard deliberately coded for that choice upon the Horde player’s part. and I’ll give them props for that.
As it turned out I also went for extra kills on that character. (She had a lot of hatred to vent.)
You are correct, actually. Looking over some videos there are a number of civilian dead named NPCs with poison glow around their bodies.
They actually had Delaryn reference the trap attempt from Elegy in game:
That was Arlessa’s doing I guess. 
Two of them, anyway.
Aayndia Floralwind <Leatherworing Trainer>
Dalria <Trade Goods>
Daelyshia <Hippogryph Master>
Fahran Silentblade <Tools & Supplies>
Innkeeper Kimlya <Innkeeper>
Llana <Reagent Supplies>
Maliynn <Food & Drink Vendor>
Nantar <Baker>
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I specifically state I didn’t because it’s being repeatedly asserted that I and every other Horde player did. Treating every Horde champion like they did that totally extraneous, non beneficial thing against orders is like treating every Horde player like they chose the Loyalist route.
Obviously the Horde champion being a completely immoral civilian slaughtering/Teldrassil burning/Sylvanas loyalist is not the default route.
Did some choose the alternate path that they were told not to take? Yeah. Is that supposed to be taken as canon for the Horde experience going forward? Is that alternate choice supposed to be representative of the Horde champion’s actions and canon events?
When you get to Lor’Danel later, you get a quest toslay 15 active combatants and spare 8 civilians.
That Blizzard gives the player options is not the issue here. Deciding what is the assumed course of events going forward, on which future content is based is.
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Blizzard: “Character Agency is important to us, so we give you a choice.”
Blizzard assumes the Horde PC slaughters night elf civilians in Astranaar for the Alliance-side portrayal of events
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Not necessarily. As per Elegy:
- All who could walk were pressed into service. Even those generally regarded as civilians—tailors, food merchants, innkeepers—had learned over centuries how to fight well enough to defend themselves. Those few who could not—mothers with infant children, the wounded—had been portaled to Stormwind when the magi arrived.
Delaryn watched, feeling wretched, as those she had ostensibly been sent here to protect joined their Sentinel sisters in racing silently across the bridges, armed with bows and daggers.
When she proposed her plan, it was met with horror, as she had expected.
“These are our friends! Our families!” Mareela, one of the Astranaar huntresses, said, her voice a snarl of outrage. “They have already given everything!”
“Their spirits have departed,” Delaryn replied. “And yes. Of course their bodies should be given reverently back to the earth. But we have no time to tend to them—not if we wish to save the thousands who are now desperately trying to flee. Those who died are gone, Mareela. They gave of themselves to save innocent lives. And they will do so . . . one last time.”
Delaryn did not wish to make it an explicit order. She was as ravaged by the thought as those she led. Could she do this if it were Cordressa lying here?
If it were Ferryn?
And the answer came, as surely as if their bodies lay beside her: Yes. She could do it . . . because every night elf would wish to do whatever they could to keep the Horde from befouling their shining city.
“We will remember them,” Delaryn said as the others, wincing, nonetheless left silently to obey her.
Delaryn had received dark inspiration from the stories of when the Horde had occupied Silverwind Refuge years earlier—hunting down those who fled and leaving their bodies to rot as a warning.
The night elves selected the bodies with care, searching close to Astranaar for those who had fallen in battle. The corpses, oftentimes wearing the faces of friends, were examined to see if their wounds could be concealed by swords, capes, or other items of clothing.
Delaryn also ordered that the areas deeper in the forest be scoured as well, hoping to recover those who had been killed by the rogues who had sprung from the shadows . . . how many days ago? Delaryn had lost count. Too many, spent in fighting, snatching moments of sleep here and mouthfuls of food there, trying to stay a step ahead of the two most brilliant minds of the Horde and an army that outnumbered the night elves eight to one. More now, perhaps.
She turned to the heartbreaking task. For some reason, she had kept the blade of the Forsaken who had killed Anaris. She removed it from her belt, examining it to make sure the lethal toxin lingered. It was still there, though obscured now with the dried blood of the former Ashenvale commander. After striding to a Sentinel who had been slain by a ranger’s arrow, Delaryn knelt beside the fallen night elf, pulled the shaft loose . . . and plunged the poisoned blade into the wound.
Some of the others gasped softly behind her, and her own heart ached. Forgive me. You will, I pray, save more lives today.
As she withdrew the blade, she angled it so the black, tarlike smear of poison was visible on the wound’s mouth. Then she went to the next corpse. Eventually, the rest of the Sentinels imitated her. She loved them fiercely in that moment, for she understood exactly what it cost them . . . and what a gesture of trust they were displaying in her leadership.
No, it assumes that various Horde NPCs slaughter Night Elf civilians in Astranaar for the Alliance-side portatal of events. Not the Horde champion specifically.
It’s players that are conflating things.
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Except it is the Horde player and only the Horde player in the position to do so.
That’s not true. The move into Darkshore and assault on Teldrassil involved hundreds/thousands of troops. Elegy describes the civilian attacks as being perpetrated by unnamed Orc troops and assailants wielding blades dipped in Forsaken poison. When we see the burning of Teldrassil, we see actual troops manning the catapults.
It’s all carried out by any number unnamed NPCs. The Horde player is by no means the only person in a position to kill civilians.
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That is literally the Horde PC… I am talking about Astranaar specifically, when the HORDE PC goes into the village with poison daggers and kills Kaldorei in that way. You have the option to kill Civilians, but Alliance side, those Civilians are dead, so clearly the canon is that the Horde PC killed Kaldorei civilians in that quest.
This isn’t difficult to understand…
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Killed by other NPCs, like the one with you who delights in killing them, or the entire army of Forsaken he also has going throughout the city doing the same. As well as Delaryn having several paragraphs dedicated to how she intentionally stabs people with daggers from fallen Forsaken in order to make it look like they killed them.
I and others have linked and quoted, relevant quests, passages from Elegy, and in game scenes explaining how these people were killed without the Horde champion personally doing it personally.
I agree that is very easy to understand. It’s also not very satisfying, as the architects and executioners of these crimes: Sylvanas, Nathanos, and various nameless NPCs, are not readily accessible for characters/players to seek vengeance upon for the crimes in question.
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