I actually dont trust them to do that actually but I’ll tell you want having a quest where I watch a cutscene of some orcs begging for forgiveness is boring, I play this game to do quests and fight, not to watch horde people do stuff, if you want that go rewatch the saurfang cinematics
This is Kat “Blizz does no wrong, Anduin is Jesus” you are talking too.
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Well replace the Horde with Blizzard and you’d be correct there.
Also it’s not as if the Alliance has no reasons to want bygones to be bygones here. The vast majority of the Undercity’s population also perished. Only I got to personally watch SI:7 Agents cut down defenseless Undercity civilians.
And what of the Zandalari? Do they get an apology fruit basket for storming their city and murdering their God King at a time of great domestic trouble?
And yeah when you’ve a dictatorship the blame kinda falls on the head. Curse those Orcs what manned the demolishers. They could’ve said no and be murdered horribly. Not saying it’s right but they certainly have their reasoning.
When did that happen? I was under the impression Undercity was evacuated in preparation for the trap.
Assuming the Alliance side of that is canon we did ask him to surrender(which I assume it is, the same faction retelling of events in both sets of bosses is hilariously biased). That’s when he attacked. It’s not like walking away was an option while he was trying to stab us to death.
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the alliance side is canon, how is this a question, we actually did the event lol
In the Horde scenario, you start in the lower level of the city and SI:7 agents are attacking undead NPCs as they’re evacuating. Then there’s an attack by a bunch of druids as well, I think to cover the SI:7 agents’ retreat?
Were there any lore comments about the amount/percentage of people who died there, though? I don’t remember there being any comment one way or another.
I figured as much. Like I edited in above, the other version is hilarious in how biased it is there’s no way it could be true. I heard Greymane actually demands Talanji as a bride.
Assuming they’re civilians that is pretty bad.
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Theres no percentage of the nelf attack too btw, a genocide can only be a attempt and it was only a attempt stormwind is covered in nelves according to the books, we just now alot of nelves did die in the burning.
The books also say too few of their people remain. You don’t burn down a city with its people trapped inside without there being a high death toll.
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Percentage, no; multiple descriptions of “too many”, “too few” who remain, and so on, yes.
I haven’t seen any such description - or any description at all - about the toll from the destruction of the Undercity. Maybe it’s there and I missed it, and I’ll change my mind if I see anything, but so far the situations are still framed very differently.
Yeah undercity is straight up ignored, cause its not important, teld is important undercity isnt cause they caused the war in the first place they are just reaping what they sowed
They are. They’re fleeing for the portal. The first stage is chasing them away.
Also I can’t find any hard data but of the named NPCs, there’s about 3 slumming it on Orgrimmar’s Gates. Garret the Bat Handler and his now very wounded bats made it. As did Captain Adams and Estelle Gendry. That’s about it and outside Garret ones the UC quartermaster and the other’s the heirloom vendor so that was gameplay based.
Otherwise it’s a bunch of nameless NPCs. Really a sad story, their lot. They clearly died at least once already, now they’re homeless and then Windrunner - the one person they truly believe had their back - flips the bird and disappears on an evil fart cloud.
Well I don’t know about that. Civilians are not a military target no matter what their armies did. It’s just abhorrent to consider otherwise.
I mean, I completely agree they should have been much more balanced narratives, where each faction would have plenty of reason to feel their side is right and morally equivalent to the other.
And even as it is, Undercity deserves a whole lot more mention that that one guy getting taunted because he misses his garden.
Agreed. I hope the story explores this theme for Forsaken at every level. There’s some voices after the event, and the datamined Velonara quote, but I hope we get at least a full questline sometime with a Forsaken exploring how they see themselves fitting into this world after everything that’s happened.
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I dont think the horde should ever feel they where right for the burning, even if the alliance burned lorderan
I’d rather Saurfang have lived an actually done something for the Night Elves to start to make amends for the War of the Thorns.
Not true.
- High Overlord Saurfang yells: Soldiers of the Horde, the time has come!
High Overlord Saurfang yells: Our enemies strike against the Undercity and seek to claim Lordaeron for their own.
High Overlord Saurfang yells: The Undercity is no longer safe for civilians. The war rages above, and dozens of spies have infiltrated our walls.
High Overlord Saurfang yells: We have herded the cowards to the Mage District and have secured the rest of the city.
High Overlord Saurfang yells: Your mission is to flush these worms out of hiding, eliminate them, and ensure that our citizens are evacuated safely to Orgrimmar.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner yells: Has the city been evacuated?
High Overlord Saurfang yells: Yes, Warchief.
At the beginning of the expansion people kept saying that the Zandalari were everything the Night Elves were supposed to be. This certainly seems to be the case in attacks against their leadership and people going unresolved, doesn’t it?
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How much of that framing though is because of the image difference between the races?
Remember the cinematics, while absolutely gorgeous works of art, serve as commercials for the game. To someone who’s never even heard of Warcraft - the image of pretty elf people on fire tells you something bad happened.
If they’re showed a zombie dressed like a mushroom farmer getting beheaded by a guy dressed like a ninja - you’re just going to be confused.
Nelves are more marketable their face was plastered on the cover of the original game. I’m not sure who made it out worse. I do know for sure though the Nelves can still procreate just fine whereas I think the Forsaken’s method just flew off with Windy. So who’s worse off is pretty debatable.
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And we arrive at that point mid battle. So who knows how many made it out before that point?
If we’re going off game alone from what I’ve seen the number of Nelf and Forsaken refugees seem to be roughly even.
And how would this support your statement that the vast majority were lost?
That’s a good point, and I think it did have a strong effect on how they were portrayed. I don’t think it changes the fact they they were portrayed and described differently, however. If Blizz announces that far too many Forsaken died at Undercity, have multiple characters thinking that it constituted genocide, then I’d want to see the Alliance respond to it.
Before the scenario came out, I was thinking that the attack on Lordaeron was going to be a closer mirror to the War of Thorns, with the enraged Alliance army marching through undead lands - and doing all the stuff Sylvanas saw in Edge of Night, where Forsaken were throwing themselves into bonfires rather than face them. That would have really given the Alliance fuel for self-doubt and a need to do their own faction soul-searching. But instead we walked face-first into blight and… well, I’ve complained enough about that topic.
My hope is for Helcular, his necromancers, and the Apothecaries to be featured as being able to create new Forsaken - though perhaps at a slower pace than the val’kyr, which could also mean that any character they revive gets a bit more individual focus than one of a whole graveyard’s batch of undead.
The thematic of sewing on or trading in replacement limbs for injured Forsaken really should show up more, I think. It’s a neat aesthetic that can exist both with or without the other darker aesthetics.
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