I mean, yea true
Still not much to expect when they couldn’t even be bothered to continue this story in whole BfA…
I actually have been a huge fan of Shandris in BfA. I like how Tyrande is coming off as more traditional Kaldorei and being like fine screw you Alliance we don’t need you and we will take our lands back ourselves.
And then you have Shandris who is the counter to that, and is more like a “modern” Kaldorei. She works with the Alliance all throughout the war campaign and shows that she sees a lot of value in them.
I don’t know I like that dynamic because they both have their place and valid arguments. However, I hate that in 8.3 they are making Shandris an Anduin bootlicker. That is just absurd. She’s known Tyrande for how long? And she’s choosing to side with dumbass Anduin over Tyrande? Please…
9 Likes
You can be close to someone while still be willing to disagree with them. The danger in vengeance, even the most understandable sort, is focusing on punishing over any other concern. It is also not always the same thing as justice, but at least Tyrande is focused on Sylvanas and isn’t going to be all final solution on the Horde races (killing those not really responsible or had a reasonable means to do anything about it, especially since it was a single action rather than years of systematic genocide with wider participation).
1 Like
Tyrande is basically like a mother to Shandris and yet she chooses Anduin over her. Also, her dialogue went from “Justice for Teldrassil” to “Let’s forgive and forget”.
But the horde had gladly slain countless of innocents even before teldrassil and nobody ever had a problem even with teldrassil besides Saurfang.
The way Blizz wrote it, even if Teldrassil didn’t burn, the majority of civilians would’ve probably still been killed during the occupation just like in Ashenvale.
4 Likes
In 8.1 Shandris did seem more line the traditional Kaldorei as you stated during her confrontation with Anduin. Beyond that I totally agree with you. She is the general of the army so she should be present in the war effort and I lived questing with her. She needed recognition before now.
I agree that both arguments are valid but it’s just that they have made Shandris look as is she sides with Anduin. Her blaise response to the alliance working with Saurfang was disappointing. He was present in WoT and angry NE who knows that should wonder why the hell he’s out. Now she’s worried about Tyrande’s harsh words. It’s ridiculous. Siding with Anduin over her own mother. 
4 Likes
My biggest objection is that Shandris is pivoting towards rebuilding before the treaty includes anything to ensure the Horde won’t just do this again. Revenge, sure, that’s ultimately unnecessary if its for its own sake, but the current scenario is so far in the other direction that it’s just as stupid.
At this point, she’s like the king in Monty Python and the Holy Grail talking about rebuilding his castle in that swamp. “Yes, yes, the last two castles sunk into the swamp, but why dwell in bad memories when we should focus on the future and rebuild?”
I really hate that the story has dragged the Horde into repeating this plotline -again- when their characters should be all too familiar with the symptoms, but if they started this story, they need to end it. Not just brush it under the rug and hope everyone forgets.
Whether it’s Horde characters promising to withdraw forces and help rebuild, or angry druids turning the border of Ashenvale into a slice of forest-y doom that no one can march through, I just want to see something to show that each side is making an effort to ensure that this won’t happen again.
11 Likes
We know why. Saurfang and Sylvannas had pulled a succesful blufff on the Alliance Leadership, including the vaunted Spymaster, convincing everyone that the Horde was making it’s move to acquire the Azerite which at that point was only known to be found at Silithus.
ON HER OWN I NITIATIVE, before she got Anduin’s approval, Tyrande had already made the decision to send Night Elf forces to Silithus. She got Anduin’s approval to send all of her active forces down there as well. So before you try to make this the total failure of the Boy King, remember it was Tyrande, Ms. Supreme Experienced Warrior of the Night Elves who made this move.
The remaining Night Elf forces in Ashenvale were junior soldiers and recruits and as amply demonstrated… doing the same job for thousands of years can make you pretty jaded and resentful, meaning that you overtrain and mistreat your soldiers because your opinion of yourself has grown out to the point where pushed out your common sense.
As far as the Horde’s ability to make that push… consider who participated… Orcs, Trolls, Forsaken Rogues and Assasins. All of which have extensive experience in night and forest operations, and considerably more battle hardened than a bunch of jaded Night Elf commanders and the raw recruits they were training.
Against a highly coordinated force led by the orc who had conqured, Orgrimmar, Stormwind, AND Shattrah, they were meat for the slaughter. And no, they were not all taken down by a single rogue. What you saw as the Horde player was just your part in it. Not all the other operations going down AT THE SAME TIME. That was an important aspect of strategy, no one got off warning to anyone else before the Ashnvale operation was done.
2 Likes
And you should understand why it HAD to play that way for gameplay reasons… to set up the Warfront. It’s important to remember that the stories are there to support the gameplay, not the other way around.
2 Likes
On Shaw’s information. The real failure isn’t with Tyrande or Anduin, it’s with Shaw.
If there was no intent to kill Nathanos then he shouldn’t have even been there. It made Tyrande’s power up look meaningless. They had to make him Valk’yr empowered to sell it. The fact is that Tyrande could take him on her worst day easily so his survival was just highly unnecessary plot armor. It didn’t need to be Nathanos there, it could have been a trusted dark ranger.
13 Likes
They should’ve killed Belmont there. Didn’t this guy run death camps in darkshore? He was a noname character that could’ve easily been killed off there but instead Tyrande froze him so that he could be rescued later.
12 Likes
Yeah what happened to killing them all. Hell she probably could have shot Nathanos right out of the sky.
6 Likes
Sad part is that the night elves are simply not allowed to take a single thing from the horde, not even noname NPCs while the horde can casually take everything from the night elves and never face any consequences, never feel any regret and never make up for anything because Anduin will forgive them anyway.
15 Likes
Neither Nathanos living nor the Undead Night Elves being raised were necessary to the Warfront. Neither contributed anything of significance to the Warfront in terms of gameplay. This is actually a strange case where story came first so they could make Sira the Horde general, a role that is exchangeable and did not have to be Sira, and as far as I have seen most Horde players would have rather they had been lead by a character from a core Horde race rather than the warfront being lead on both sides by Night Elves.
14 Likes
Was the entire Horde faction combined fighting at Darkshore? Were the Night Elves entirely alone on their side?
From what we see I’d Horde at Darkshore was mostly just Forsaken and Goblins (plus a few orcs and the Shatterspear in the phased zone I guess) while Alliance had Nelfs and Gilnean. So, 2 for 2?
1 Like
Night Elves had the Gilneans mainly for support.
In the Alliance introductory questing for the Darkshore Warfront, and in “Terror of Darkshore,” the Horde also had Orcs, Trolls, Blood Elves, and Mag’har support as well.
2 Likes
I’d think most of those would be occupied at Arathi with Liadrin, Rokhan and Eitrigg.
Don’t think we see any Blood Elves or Darkspear when the Warfront is conquered. There’s the Shatterspear to the North and an Orc encampment to the south and that’s it.
Because in the Alliance introductory questing and “Terror of Darkshore” Tyrande and Malfurion kill them all.
2 Likes
NE are right to an extend. They truly lost a city, two zones and half but besides that, the forsaken lost the same and lost their leader, and not just a leader, they lost their soul. Some see this as a good moment to develop their other side without sylvanas. But we know that blizzard will just forget them and they will still be shackled with sylvanas.
And we dont see alot of undead ppl around trying to annoy anyone with this but NE in this foruns seems to want more and more attention and they are so in character that they forget that we players have next to zero control over the direction of the story is taking.
Still they torment us over and over and over and like i said before in another thread. They keep sylvanas relevant, NE fans are the new Human paladin meme but with leaves.
3 Likes
I certainly don’t remember Blood Elves in the intro questline
Either way, it seems that there were never that many of the other races compared to Goblins and Forsaken
The Forsaken lost one zone, their city nuked by Sylvanas, not the Alliance, and then they lost their leader. But does that really count when she never cared about them? Sylvanas held the Forsaken back, hopefully now they get more development beyond, “For the Dark Lady!”
Also Night Elves are victims of genocide. Forsaken are not.
12 Likes