The what now?
It seems to be more of a problem for forum posters determined to make a mountain out of one statement.
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Itâs not just one statement itâs a list of things we see in game.
Like how it seems all the other races of the Alliance have to turn to the Humans to help them. They can never get anything done without the help of the Humans.
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I generally agree. Up until BfA, its really only been a meme that took on a life of its own.
I mean, did people forget that Anduin and Jaina did little to nothing in Legion? That Khadgar was the only human character of real note in that expansion until Argus with Turalyon; both of which make perfect sense to be involved in a Legion-esk storyline? That the Kaldorei had 3 Zones, 6 Dungeons, and 2 Raids a least loosely associated with their history and lore?
Anduin is an oppressive force in BfA certainly, but thatâs because heâs being used as a plot device to justify the Hordeâs continued existence; because surprise, surprise, you canât wipe out a PC Faction in a two Faction game for what the writers forced that faction to do.
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And the reason to side with Zekhan he gave was not Teldrassil, but because the player was being lied to:
- If Varok Saurfang is to make it back to us alive, it will be up to you. Be discreet.
- Ey mon, dat dark ranger, she be lyin' to ya! Saurfang knew dey'd be comin' for him. He sent me to watch da pass, see who his assassins be. Try to warn him if I could. She not be reportin' back nothin'... she gonna kill him. Most likely got a whole buncha deathguards just waitin' for her signal. We gotta stop dem! Ya wit' me?
And to clarify my point even further, the Horde player, regardless of their feelings about Saurfang, acts directly under Sylvanasâ orders still in regards to Darkshore:
- There is one night elf in particular that we seek. You may remember her from our last venture into Darkshore. Lucky for you, she is already dead... so she should prove less troublesome than the living ones you've already encountered.
Signal me when you find her corpse.
Nathanos Blightcaller says: There is one more asset to acquire. One who resisted⊠and failed. The Dark Lady was very⊠specific in her wishes.
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Alright, Iâm noticing the throughline of your arguments pertaining to Teldrassil.
Namely, youâre hyper focused on the absence of its mentions, and then pointing to that as evidence of it being absent from motivations and reasons to turn against Sylvanas, despite Teldrassil very evidently being in the back of the minds of big lore characters like Saurfang, Baine, and Lorâthemar, both implicitly and explicitly.
The problem is, I personally do not find the absence of evidence to be particularly good evidence. In addition, your arguments hinge on misunderstanding words like âschismsâ and then claiming that there being a schism is contradictory to someone on one side of said schism still enjoying the support of a power base.
Thinking about it now, I think its disingenuous to suggest that Teldrassil is simply absent from the characterization or motivations of various characters, even (or perhaps especially) Horde ones, because it actually is referenced throughout the expansion in multiple forms (repeatedly by said Horde characters), which should make apparent that it is not forgotten by the story in the grand scheme and thus apparently not forgotten by the characters in said story.
Like, let me sum it up for you. If the only way youâll accept that Teldrassil is or can be a part of the decision to rebel against Sylvanas is if Zekhan, in passing, while on the way to save his friend Saurfang, drops an explicit reference to it (denying even the notion that the player could be factoring it into their reasoning), I think your analysis of the story is suffering from a reliance on the info being exposited in a blatant and very literal manner.
Are Warfronts mandatory? Does the player need to participate in them to progress the main story? Does playing in them constitute the playerâs character agreeing with the story the quests take them on?
Iâd argue that the Saurfang decision is more pressing since it involves far more direct player agency than a gameplay feature with a on-rails scripted questline. At worst, the best you can argue is that participating in the Warfront is to hide your real loyalties, and partaking in the real war that is actually going on (which involves the Night Elves using their new powers to wipe the floor with you).
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On the other hand, we got rocking armor sets and a very neat Alliance mount. (Horde plaguebat with the cancle chair is pretty neat as well.)
The story of the fall of the Kalâdorei was at least a story⊠Tirisfal Glades was literally taken out offscreen.
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I was talking about the 8.1 Darkshore Warfront, not the pre-patch event.
And having a whole event of the Alliance burning their way to Lordaeron wouldâve probably helped with the retribution thingie. It being taken offscreen helps cement the idea that the Horde didnât suffer retribution because we donât even see anything happening to them, instead starting with our 17-years old genius Supreme Commander Anduin Wrynn blindly leading his troops into Blighty McPoisonGasâ fortress without having prepared for the blight and only being saved by the arrival of Pirate Mage Jesus.
Admiral Rogers raining hellfire on Tirisfal Glades from the skies wouldâve certainly alleviate the Allianceâs situation.
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Thatâs where the rocking armor sets came from. (The Horde variants on them are an expression of modern Ogrimmar meh.)
Not the plaguebat though. Warfront gave us what, 3 Nightsabers, a bear and a Chimera?
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Iâve got more work to do⊠Iâve only got one saber and the Chimera. I picked up a raptor and a bat mount on Arathi.
I admit I am still a bit cranky that the Horde can capture our Nightsabers as what amounts to spoils of war. I really wish they had updated our race mounts instead. They desperately need a refresh.
They shouldâve added an Ancient (or one of the other tree guys) for the Alliance and a special shredder for the Horde in place of one of the Nightsabers tbh
Iâm pretty sure there was a pre-patch wq where you ride atop a tree guy
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Most horde players were fine with the genocide of the night elves but when it come to genocide of the horde, u start to protest.
For your information, the horde was formed to genocide all races so they could take over the world. PERIOD! Be it night elves, human, or what ever race.
THIS! is the point!
The Horde was formed to destroy other races and worlds!
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I want one of the new model white nightsabers! Theyâre so nice looking but players canât get them.
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And yet, true Alliance patriots never will!
Can you prove that? quite a few of us were not happy with the situation at Teldrasil, if most were indeed fine with the genocide of the night elves, a lot of that might be because of Alliance players like YOU who keep telling us we are the bad guys, always were and always will be.
The old Horde (WCI and WCII Era) were formed by the Legion to serve as shock troops against the Draenei, Sargeras then enabled them, through his possession of Medivh, to invade Azeroth.
The New Horde, Thralls Horde, the Horde that is SUPPOSED to be the one in WoW was formed after the orcs were freed from the camps, they saved the Darkspear from alliance/a sea witch while on their way to Kalimdor, they saved the Tauren from centaurs, these 3 races formed the new horde as more a group of races trying to make their way in the world.
That is the point of a pinhead or idiot that thinks things canât change with time. Sure, the old horde, under Blackhand, was formed to do as you say, but not the one Thrall, Volâjin and Cairne formed.
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The Sandy Nightsaber at least might be coming in 8.3 for 350 Service Medals:
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Thereâs an Alliance only moonsaber that flies as well. Working on that one as well.
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If the fantasy of a Horde that didnât support Sylvanasâ after her genocidal actions comforts you then go ahead and keep telling yourself whatever you want. There has been no meaningful efforts from (Blizzard wanting) the Horde to address Teldrassil, most likely purposefully from the Horde leadership (and Blizzard) hoping that if they just keep their heads down the Alliance wonât bring up Teldrassil any further, either, so a peace accord will be signed and everyone just moves on without the Horde ever facing any consequences.
In this, absence is not only the evidence, it is what is being complained about. And your wanting to believe that something exists that has not been explicitly stated has no practical relevance to anyone other than yourself.
The Darkshore Warfront and its introductory questing happens regardless of if any individual player plays it or not. Iâve already shown the Horde canon participation in that scripted event, which was, as already reference in our conversations so far, Nathanos, Belmont, any of those cinematic characters that showed up in âTerror of Darkshoreâ and any other NPCs that showed up on behalf of the Horde. You can keep intentionally avoiding that if you want, but thatâs all youâre doing.
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