Night Elf Player Hate

Lore Story Forum
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Thats not power fantasy.

Power fantasy is if the Night Elves are outraged that the Horde could even beat them.
How could the Horde defeat the Night Elves when they are gods upon the meager mortals that reside in the Horde.

Power fantasy is if NE fans expected the War of Thorns failed before it even began.

Dont confuse proper story payoff with power fantasies.
It makes you look biased.

Horde characters admitting they did Teldrassil and properly feeling ashamed isn’t a power fantasy (assuming we want to pretend the Horde is morally concious)

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314

Those complaints actually happened on the forums though.

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Any of them here?

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I started trying to look up post histories to check before I realized I don’t actually care enough to do that.

But I did look up the term power fantasy and I’ll admit I used it wrong. Basically what I was trying to say was that the WoT hit their immersion in a way that didn’t make them feel effective.

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It’s not even that, they used the war of thorns to kick start bfa and increase the faction pride amongst the player base. It was A story that was front and center and now has no resolution in sight, and has been swept under the rug to move onto N’zoth.

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321

Define effective.

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Touche.

Basically, because of the -supposed- power of the night elves, Blizzard straight up ignored a lot of it (their nature allies and wild gods), and wrote Tyrande to be incredibly stupid and send the entire army away, so that the horde attacked when they were the race was at their absolute weakest possible, spending a couple of weeks watching them get pushed back and capped off with an impossible scenario that was intentionally designed to make you feel like a failure. Afterwards it’s written that the horde took massive losses, but because these short stories came out after the prepatch event, it was too late because the bad first impression had already made its mark.

Then, when it looks like Blizzard might turn things around in 8.1 with the cutscene and the night warrior stuff, all they amount to is a Darkshore stalemate. Then they get blueballed by Blizzard saying Tyrande already got her revenge.

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True they are fanatic and nuts but nelve fanatics are even worse. I dunno about you but I ve never seen any other fan of any other thing in this game report me for harassment for disagreeing with them, spamming whinny treads about how nelves are opressed ALL THE TIME, acuse people of being na"zis for playing Horde and flat out acting like children throwing a tamper tantrum and resorting to mass flag / personal attacks whem they see they are losing the discussion.

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I think that this is one of the biggest drivers behind the current outrage.

The story pointing towards a complete lack of resolution has made this whole scenario boil over, but I think even this wouldn’t have been so bad if the night elf fans felt they had -any- past depiction of the night elves that they could hold onto and feel pride in.

The constant references to WC3 night elves are, from what I’ve seen and interpreted, due to that game setting the tone for what people wanted to see from the night elves, and WoW’s track record of leaning on the WC3 fantasy while never really showing it.

Obviously, the night elves started out as a full WC3 faction and needed to get taken down a peg to fit into WoW’s Alliance and Horde narrative. But I feel like the writers took it too far.

(rant inc, skip to the end if you want to preserve your sanity)
Druidism was carved out and made neutral. Okay. They were the sort to focus more on the land than politics. But apparently they’re not only neutral, they’re so neutral they won’t even write an angry letter when the Horde invades, chops down, and burns Ashenvale. Not a good feeling, but we can headcannon that they were angry but too busy with Hyjal to even write a letter or say anything.

And there’s the infamous case of goblin shredders ambushing night elf Sentinels in Ashenvale. At night. Boy, that’s great immersion for someone who signed up to play the nocturnal guerrilla fighters operating in a forest they have thousands of years of experience sneaking through. But hey, a tweet says we got the land back, I suppose.

Except then the Horde bases in Ashenvale are still in operation by the time the story wants to -show- another Horde incursion in all its unstoppable, inevitable glory. Great, okay. One of the books said it was only recently reoccupied, though, so I guess that overrides the playable game version we had to play through. Oh, and the night elves get ambushed in their home turf, again. But rogues are sneaky, too, so one can’t really complain. It’s just another slice of bitterness to add to the growing pile.
(end rant)

Basically, the night elves have been told that they’re still cool while constantly being shown the opposite. There are enough other factors involved that makes it difficult to argue that it’s pure bad representation - so it still rankles for night elf fans who want to actually -experience- the faction fantasy they signed up for, while looking perfectly fine to someone who doesn’t have a personal investment in that fantasy.

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325

Both the Forsaken and the Kaldorei need a bit of attention paid to them in specific. They need a race specific scenario where they work on cleaning house, so to speak.

The forsaken need to (re)claim a new home (updated spooky scary surface level Lordaeron city perhaps?) and work out a proper government: I totally feel they need to reform the desolate council. It’s structure was well documented in BTS and all they need to do is just apply it. It also give them a way to introduce new Forsaken to grow into important NPCs, which they need desperately.

The Kaldorei a new home as well, they could just use Hyjal as 8.3 seems to hint towards. Most importantly Ashenvale and Darkshore need to reflect their reclamation with a resulting phase change of the map showing the old horde positions grown over with vines or something with Kaldorei forces present in them.

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Thats a pretty accurate representation of what happened but what would being “effective” mean?

What would needs to change for the Night Elves to be effective and why are some of the Horde players so resistant to it?

Jellex has stated because the Horde player failed their war campaign, Zandalari Troll king dead, Zandalari zones ending on a loss note, Fleet blownup, Undercity gone and Sylvanas leaving ARE the punishment for what happened to the Night Elves.

But I strongly disagree.
None of those had anything to do with Teldrassil.
It doesn’t address what the Horde did, why they did it, why they continued to support Sylvanas.

Those events don’t align. They are just new plots that need to be addressed.
Where is Talanji? What is her reaction?
It would be supremely stupid for her to forgive her father’s murder because the Horde decided to kill every Night Elf they could.

Does that mean Talanji should not get her loss addressed?
I would answer no.
Just as I would say the Night Elf and Alliance situation has not been properly answered.

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This relates to the discord argument from last night. While it’s probably bad to try speaking for others, I think his “misery measure” comes from a player-centric point of view while yours was from a character-centric one. To him, Teldrassil would be a huge negative experience for an alliance player, and it “balances out” because his horde experience was a series of extended negatives. But I’m guessing yours is character-based so the losses of another race didn’t do anything for the huge negative that the night elf race got. It’s just everyone getting dumped on without addressing the causes of those hits.

And there’s also likely a lack of faith that Blizzard would keep these hypothetical scenarios faction-specific.

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It should go beyond Ashenvale and Darkshore, even if in name only, just to show that the Horde can’t simply start a war, massacre thousands, and then have everything go back right to where it started.

If they wanna show the Horde Peace Council playing nice, have them withdraw from other areas of conflict with Night Elves - Stonetalon, Feralas, (Felwood?). If they want to show the Army of the Black Moon being worth a damn? Have those already on the process of being reclaimed when the Horde pulls out.

All this can be done just with those rumors/reactions thingies, or a post-war report, random dialogue between NPCs…

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“Forsaken” of course. “Forsaken”, Blood Elves and “Nightborne” always come full circle. 3 Horde races that carry no actual Horde aesthetic to them and were nonsensically shoehorned into the Horde.

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You people joke about ‘human male paladins’ but most of the time when I see a dumb, crazy or out of touch comment in these forums it’s a night elf—female of course, they seem to attract most of the ‘special’ people.

I think it’s the result of them being humored too much after Teldrassil and now they think they’ve got a captive audience to preach at.

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I’m not sure what the difference is. How can the night elves feel like heroes if they have to depend on the alliance (humans) to fix their problems? How can the horde feel powerful if they lack the morality to stand up to corruption without alliance aid? Aren’t the terms interchangeable?

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Who the fuc r u calling an apologist?!

If any you apologists could ever bother to read what I’m actually saying before you get right to playing your petty game of labeling me as an “alliance bootlicker” or a “mudhut” while plugging your fingers in your ears to tune out to what i have to say, you’d realize that I’m not a particularly huge fan of BfA’s narrative and I’ve gone at length as to why in numerous other threads.

I don’t take joy in this stupid narrative, I simply take solace that Sylvanas is no longer Warchief, as she never should’ve had the title to begin with. Sylvanas is no more special of a character than the numerous other characters we lost; Cairne, Garrosh, Vol’jin, they were shafted as well, but when Sylvanas gets to leave with her life? This is what drives off people who care about the lore?!

I’m sorry, but this is outrageous. Only when YOUR favorite character gets ruined does it matter, but not when other peoples’ favorite characters get screwed over?

I’m getting fed up with having my name dropped by people who deliberately refuse to comprehend my arguments and then piss on my intelligence by calling me an “apologist”.

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Your character doesn’t stop being a good person just because you weren’t successful in trying to do the right thing. The problem is the lack of payoff.

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I wouldn’t mind if we had it in the armistice that any horde straglers still in Ashenvale, and darkshore are fair game. That the horde cannot go to war over any of their members wanting to stay and fight in darkshore.

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Ah, see that feels like a bit too much overreach given the state of the Kaldorei. Issues such as Feralas and Stonetalon need to be mentioned as part of a formal peace treaty, with areas in dispute with the horde having claims formally ceded. They should have Mordent Evenshade as our ambassador on the terms council, using his negotiation skill as a highborne to our advantage.

Feralas I imagine that being the horde releasing any claim on Feralas west of Dire Maul with a stipulation the Tauren would be the chief stewards of the lands east of dire maul. The same likely goes for Stonetalon, with the horde formally releasing any claims on land north of Krom’gar fortress.

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