Actually, not exactly. Terenas objected to killing the orcs and implemented the internment camp system as an alternative (with primarily Genn and Trollbane being opposed to it), and with Antonidas they planned on rehabilitating them by finding a cure to their lethargy due to hypothesizing that they were only attacking as a result of their demonic corruption, and that their blood lust would fade and they would lose their lust for conquest.
So Terenas’ plan was to eventually let them out, not leave “them to rot in time”.
If one were to ask me, I would say that the Night Elves do have a reason to seek further vengeance from a story perspective. However, what many Night Elf players ask for extends beyond Sylvanas and to the rest of the Horde (which includes the players) to punish for the burning.
I think that is what most people here have an issue with on the red team. We’re tired, we’ve been battered and broken, stripped of our pride and agency just as much as they have minus a genocide and plus quite a few major characters. Heck, I’d argue out of all the races the Forsaken are the ones in the worse narrative spot.
What I think they fail to recognize is that when a character goes off the rails and attacks the other faction first as a major event in WoW it has often ended in one singular way. The Garrosh way, via the villian-bat. If Tyrande starts something, whether justified or not, WoW logic dictates that she go too far, go nutso, and have to be put down while the other Night Elves simply side against her or shrug and get over her death immediately.
While I admit it would be somewhat cathartic to watch the NE community go up in flames in such an event, we know how it feels. We’ve done it twice now. We don’t want you guys to go through that garbage story because we firsthand know how bad it is.
This forum has become overly toxic (even by our standards!) and the burning and the NE player base response has been a large part of that. I understand why of course, but it has been over a year and we’re still singing the same tune on all sides.
Nelf fans are right to be hacked off over BFA’s writing.
The War of Thorns was meant to be a nearly identical play-by-play re-enactment of the Fall of Quel’Thalas from WC3, to set up parallels so Sylvanas looked more and more like Arthas. This never made any sense. The Fall of Quel’Thalas was only possible due to a number of extraordinary circumstances.
Quel’Thalas had severed ties with its allies, the Alliance, after the Second War.
The Kingdom of Lordaeron fell to the Scourge, meaning that even if the Alliance was going to send aid, it was plunged into too deep a chaos to properly organize any kind of force to help.
A traitor from within the ranks of the helves was ultimately the key needed for Arthas to raze Silvermoon City and assault Quel’Danas itself.
Of these points, the War of Thorns does not address a single one. The nelves were still members of the Alliance, and we live in a world where Mages can transport armies in mass, Draenei have flying space ships with teleport pads (and are located right next to Teldrassil), and the Worgen are living on Teldrassil itself. The War of Thorns should never have been the Night Elves fighting alone, without those points somehow being addressed. They never were.
There’s also the problem that the Horde had no help from traitor Nelves, so they had to force their way to Teldrassil through brute strength and being better at guerilla warfare than the race that was the poster child for it in WC3!
I think the biggest issue, however, is that the nelves have received NO indication, whatsoever, that Blizzard is going to follow through on this rehash of WC3’s Fall of Quel’Thalas. None of the nelf leaders fell, no new leaders are rising to revitalize a demoralized and suffering population, and there’s nothing to suggest that any kind of cultural movement or renaissance is going to take place to give the nelves a story as interesting as that of the belves.
If anything, the closest thing we have (the Army of the Black Moon) is being foreshadowed to be bad-guys the same way Kael’thas and the Sunfury were written off to become raid fodder.
There’s no satisfaction to be had in this story direction. It was unnecessary, illogical, and there is no indication the Devs will follow through and make an actual interesting narrative from it for the nelves.
Except it really isn’t. She’s basically hellscream if he was only xenophobic of horde races you all just find it more acceptable because it’s a blind hatred towards the other faction
I’m not lying at all, just not being an optimist about what Blizzard is going to do in the story next.
Your post basically boils down to saying “have faith” and my simple answer to that is “no” based on the way Blizzard has treated me and others. Haven’t seen a single whiff of the Moon Guard or the Cenarions or Cenarius himself, much less any of the Wild Gods, when Night Elves literally got their entire racial city burned to ashes either.
Also funny that the only thing you can point out for Worgen fans to be happy with is getting a top hat too bad that comes with the most boring heritage armor they’ve ever designed on top of a questline that destroys more of our racial identity and basically turns us into cursed Stormwind humans instead of our own cool and unique thing. Say what you will about Forsaken but at least they had edge to lose, Worgen were never even given that to begin with despite Blizzard’s lies and our next faction leader is almost certainly going to be an uncursed human.
Blizzard doesn’t care to develop cultures, only destroy them and homogenize them because that is easier to write into their theme park cape -tier stories.
My post boils down to “The Forsaken don’t have anything left to draw on. The Night Elves have been expanded upon almost every single expansion since Cataclysm.”
And my point is they’ve had more and more things taken away from them and made neutral so that they’re not elements that are actually exclusive to them.
And the Druidism aspect of the Night Elves has been part of the problem with defanging them as it’s been associated more with peaceful hippy treehugging stuff.
Question: Would you still have an issue with a scenario where the Horde NPCs that were involved with the Burning were put in-game and identified as Sylvanas loyalists rather than current playable Horde, and were slain by night elves in a quest/scenario that the Horde player does not have to participate in? (and maybe even doesn’t have to hear about unless they actively seek it out?)
I’m fatigued by this story, and I don’t want to strike at Horde players who never asked for it to start this way, but I do think that this plot point needs to be resolved.
How does that make it that the night elves have it worse than the forsaken, then? The Forsaken literally have nothing but a handful of characters. They’ve lost their homelands, lost their cult of personality. Arthas is dead. Bolvar is a non issue for the forsaken. There’s… what, the royal apothecary society? MAYBE? Royal to whom? The queen’s gone.
I listed a ton of night elf factions, characters, places, and more to illustrate that the night elves only lost a world stump and some pride. The Forsaken lost everything their culture was based and built on, because unlike the night elves, the forsaken haven’t gotten focus every other expansion.
That’s not even my point, I’m not trying to play Victim Olympics here, just that those things you list are not as amazing as you want to make them seem.
I think many Night Elf posters have valid concerns with the lore as it pertains to their favorite race.
Tyrande deserves Vengeance
That sounds about right. Everyone deserves vengeance. Even Sylvanas does - against many. Vengeance is the kind of thing that people usually only get if they seek it.
Anduin is WRONG for calling for peace
Its an opinion. Anduin has played the Horde like a fiddle, but Tyrande is right to play a heavy hand early, if she can. She is wise to make a statement early and then maybe simmer down if events prove Anduin right.
The only way to make this right is further killing
Its among the more satisfying ways. But not the only way.
Tyrande should not be portrayed as crazy or wrong because people who have been wronged can’t be wrong for wanting revenge.
I can agree with you there.
There are some Night Elf posters that take things very hard. Some of the other playable races have also gone through villain batting and the jabroni treatment. As well as losing leaders and homelands.
Shandris is being poorly written because she calls for peace
Shandris is being poorly written because she is being described as equating her experience and Anduin’s with Tyrande’s. The little lass is quite rude. Even in the Eternal Palace, she comes off almost as petulant and childish. Then she has the gall to second guess Tyrande!
They made Shandris go a little too hard on the Human Arm Candy side. I can understand the story portraying Shandris as the bridge between the Night Elves and the Alliance as well as the Horde after BfA. But its not coming across as organic.
While I’d groan that elements of the Horde are still shown to be unapologetic ‘bad guys’, the simple answer is no. I’d have few problems with it if that was the end of it. Afterwards we all bury the hatchet, go home, and wait for the next big bad while staring menacingly at each other.
There are a few caveats to this scenario that make me wary past the surface to completely avoid any Horde PC interactions with the event, such as location. I assume this would take place in Night Elf land anyhow, like in Darkshore or even Ashenvale. If so go for it.
However, if the Night Elves were striking out into Horde lands, I find it hard to believe they would not be striking out at us the players as well, as we totally helped and were a huge part of the WoT. Simultaneously the trespasses into Horde territory would inevitably have to be discussed by Horde leadership, ending with Baine shrugging and going “we deserved it.” I don’t want either of those. I also presume no more notable Horde NPC’s will be killed as we’ve lost enough on that front as well. (We’re keeping Belmont!)
So in short, I think it would be perfectly fine, but would need to completely divorced from the Horde’s story, PCs, and territory.
Well, perhaps there could be a Horde-side scenario where the Forsaken move back into Tirisfal and focus on cleaning up the Blight and rebuilding the Undercity with the help of their Horde allies. Instead of the brutal retribution going on in Darkshore, they get to focus on rebuilding, with all killing quests be relegated to the remaining skeletons, some Alliance extremists, and the final remnants of the Scarlet Crusade.
While the Alliance get their feel good kill stuff quest, the Horde get a moment to experience unity and the ‘family’ we are told we are.
That way both sides who have gotten punked by BFA get some form of closure while not having to interact with the opposing faction at all.
Blizz’s use of random NPC dialogue was rather effective in 8.2.5. Honestly, its probably one of the best writing tools they’ve implemented in this expansion. Perhaps this could be added to such an endeavor to help flesh it out? Especially if the Horde at large would be largely removed from those events?
questline that destroys more of our racial identity and basically turns us into cursed Stormwind humans instead of our own cool and unique thing. Say what you will about Forsaken but at least they had edge to lose, Worgen were never even given that to begin with despite Blizzard’s lies and our next faction leader is almost certainly going to be an uncursed human.