[News] Shadowlands: A Look at Covenant Class and Signature Abilities *Updated 5/13

I’m not saying that its not problematic but people should always have reasons to pick someone else over you. I know its happened to me and its happened to many many others. I think there’s a bigger issue with making abilities so much better that this would happen than slightly better so this might still happen. I’d like to see something like perhaps Kyrian abilities might not be seen as beneficial on the damage level but maybe they give off ambient healing to raids or something.

Things should not be equal because then why are they different to begin with. But if you design abilities that its crazy to even consider a dps or healer not in a specific covenant then you are a terrible designer. They should be nice to have but not necessary make a difference. Although there will always be those that see them in that way you just waste the idea of even making them if they are freely changed or all the same.

At the same time if the players as a whole see one covenant as the defacto choice, those abilities shouldn’t be dampen because people have proclaimed them so. That’s going to be annoying for those that have taken them for that very reason to then have that choice suddenly taken from them. Within reason of course.

All of this is risky putting game affecting in the game to start with. I’d like to see it but if you’ve structured players to only value certain things you’ve done badly by the players. Especially when you want to introduce something like this. But at some point it has to be done or we’ll end up feeling no matter what we choose its no better or worse than what we didn’t. Which is also removing choice across the board. I think we should see how these are, see how they are used then determined what failings they brought before declaring everything should be equal across the board so we might as well not even bothered with having a choice. There’s more to this than just what we’ve seen so far so maybe it ends up not really being much ado about anything (which I’m afraid of).

I’m also concerned about the reasoning for all of this if next expansion it just all goes away again. I really wish at some point the choices we make as we play through this game reflect the character we’ve created. Where it mattered you played Classic and it mattered you battled the Lich King and it mattered you watch Thrall end Garrosh :neutral_face:. At this point none of it does and I think that’s missing the whole point of the RPG here.

r the covenants going to fraction specific cuz 2 sound dark and two sound light if thats the case its gonna make certain classes really on fair according to witch faction they choose

You have a little extra note on the final warrior ability.

Looks like an internal dev note about a change you intended to make or did make to the hunter Night Fae ability.

Because then it wouldn’t be borrowed power and Blizzard HATES the idea of long term xpac to xpac progression.

Ravenous Frenzy

For a period of time, Druid spells you cast increase your damage, healing, and haste by a percentage, stacking.

If you spend a period of time idle, the Frenzy overcomes you, consuming a percentage of your health per stack, stunning you, and then ending.

I get that this is largely a matter of tuning and the benefit could potentially be tuned to be the single best trait of any class option. But why is it the only one that has a drawback (take up to 60% of your life in damage and get stunned as of right now). Is there another in there I’m not seeing?

Thanks! I’ve fixed that.

Cool. 4 characters it is then. So that my choice isn’t meaningful because I can have them all and not suffer.


exactly! people need to see the upsides to making decisions in games.

most of the abilities are good and not having the best one likely doesn’t mean a huge power shift as the other options are also good even if there is best option

I love the covenant system. Cosmetics are not that serious when there are already so many options and more being added. Most people dont wear cosmetics that everyone can get easily anyway so the truth is that most people wont wear their covenant armor anyway except at the beginning. So after that theres just picking the best ability for the content you like best or the most fun for your gameplay. I’m not sure why people obsess over “being equaly as powerful no matter the content” and then say “we LOL our way through +15s”
doesn’t add up.

i think i’m going with necro and the vanquisher’s hammer.
i just like throwing hammers

“All Targets” …

That reminds me of a bug that a friend of mine encountered back when Kharazan was new. He was part of a group that went in, he used Avenger’s Shield and it Kept Bouncing. It had an unlimited range. It pulled Every Single Mob and Boss in the instance. Needless to say … they wiped.

people dont want to make choices these days. Being decisive is not a strong point for most people.

how is it imersive to not have to make real decisions and take consequences?

thats not immersive to me to just have all decisions be based on my wardrobe.

I remember before we had any details that was my concern.

"I don’t want to be pigeonholed into a covenant because it becomes a choice of “good, ok, support, avoid like the black plague” depending on your spec / preferred style of play.

And unless they make some serious changes, it’s looking like that’s going to happen.


Will you be able to honestly say that if you try and get into raiding / pvp / mythic and discover your choice of Covenant has you holding the group back?

Let’s be realistic, if you’re interested in progression, you’re going to want to squeeze every ounce of power out of the character you can. Which means finding the optimal covenant for your spec.

I certainly wouldn’t want to be the guy who is holding my group back. I don’t think any reasonable player wants to be the dead weight.

That was my issue with Elder Scrolls Online. At least early on. You had to fight the UI half the time to do anything. Using potions was a bloody nightmare.

The challenge in the game should be the mobs, their abilities, things like that. It shouldn’t be the power systems trying to gimp you.

I’ve never faulted them for their ideas. They come up with some of the best ideas around. I’ve always faulted them on the execution of those ideas!

IE “Great Idea!” … “Poor Execution” seems to be a trend they repeat time after time.

You sound like you are completely new to WoW if you would say such ignorant things.

I’m an ultra casual player, so if I was interested in playing Shadowlands I would play whatever I like cause I don’t raid or do Mythic plus.

But, if you’re interested in doing those things, your group will make it mandatory for you to have the best abilities.

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I’ve been playing since late TBC, so that’s your first mistake.

Here is your second mistake. No group will make things mandatory. Never once in BFA has it been required to have “bis” azerite traits or essences. No one has ever inspected me or anyone I know (all of which do high end content), and refused them access to content. When grouping with people, no one ever asks if you are using the “most optimal” traits/essences. Even in Legion I never one experienced being kept out of content because I didn’t have the “bis” legendaries.

Even worse. Remember how people can and will get benched or just straight up not brought along depending on their class? This, in it’s exact form, would only amplify it.


Over complicated, gimmicky…and more borrowed power.

And it’s been said…for casual’s…choose what you want. Max DPS certain ones will be mandatory. Since I’m casual I won’t have any issues…but many will if they choose the wrong one.