Maybe this is where I go wrong. As someone who is a forever DM/wanna be fantasy writer. These are the details i wonder about. If you make Amazonia cool but make it work.
When i play games that feature a Life force or spirit for “Earth” that is male it catches me off guard.
Because of how prevalent the “Mother Earth” trope is throughout our history. Doesnt mean you cant make it male but it has to be well written and felt throughout that “world” to not take me out of it.
Edit: Guess Ive barely used WoW forums. Sorry to everyone I quote terribly.
What about when Sylvanas made a pact with, and was ultimately destroyed by the Jailer? Granted she betrayed him when she realized his true aims, but she still got crushed by him, and it was at a time when everyone actually hated and despised her.
This is where you and I differ. I think the quality of writing has gone down because they’re unwilling to hire good writers because those actually cost money. At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if WoW’s story is being entirely driven by ChatGPT now. Forced inclusion has nothing to do with it - the writing is just lame because they don’t recognize good talent or the need for it.
sylvanas is a perfect example of a character that was destroyed by DEI writing. no one had a problem with her for a decade as leader of the forsaken. but when they made her a deranged poorly written illogical villain who then gets redeemed/justified/etc everyone was immediately turned off. it had nothing to do with her being a female and everything to do with the horrible illogical writing/character ‘building’ they put her through.
Look, at the end of the day, this company is terminally ill and has cancer tumors all throughout its corporate body. The only solution is for everyone disliking this to boycott and divest yourself from their products, and to persuade others to do so.
If you dislike the vibe of the game. Stop playing it and spend your time elsewhere. Mock it vocally and tag all the developers on twitter.
The franchise is dead and the rot has long become unbearable to smell.
Agree to a point. The problem through the writing and playing the game is that you know there is an agenda going on. You can see it. That you’re being “lectured” that women can be great leaders, blah blah blah (not scoffing at the idea, but the delivery). No one likes to be “lectured” in their entertainment. Whether it’s about race, sexism, climate change,____(pick your activism). And this is coming from a guy who is not white. There is a way to do it where you don’t hit the people over the head with it and it seems natural, not obtuse and off-putting. Where you’re just watching well-written, great entertainment and oh there is this “message” underneath that if you look close enough and start peeling the layers, it’s there. Thats how you do it. Not the obtuse way Hollywood and the entertainment industry is doing it to “tick-off boxes”.
Then there is the logic that many had mentioned about fantasy being grounded. Questions about “well, where are all the men? Did they all die in an all-consuming war? Or how is this society being so diverse, given that they have been isolated for thousands of years and not in 2024 (unless there is a story about say a character that’s not part of the culture but ended up there and we’ll find about his /her story)?”. The answer is you can have it both ways. Yes, you CAN. How? By for eg. creating another race or faction that is representative of the diversity you want to achieve, but have them be their own thing, with their own culture, religion, even racism (eg. The Pandaren representing Chinese culture, but still feeling part of WoW). Or how the Night Elves were a matriarchal society (in Warcraft 3). Well, there was logic behind that (the men were slumbering in the Emerald dream). This will accomplish what you’re after, but done in a deft manner. Where it seems logical and not “forced” (back to eg. of the Pandaren: Pandaria was isolated and had no exposure to the rest of Azeroth).
The point is you can still accomplish what you’re after, but done in a skilful manner.
Lol you literally just make everything up. Anduin isn’t doing any of that. Being strong, stoic, masculine is NOT toxic. Also maybe more men are single because they WANT to be and do not have their worth determined by being in a relationship. Dont even start on domestic violence when everyone in their right mind knows one group is literally never actually punished for their abusive behaviors. Dont forget this is world of WARcraft.
You need to get in therapy. You are literally living in a fantasy world in your head. You get triggered because men say they want more masculine men in the game and think thats pushing people out is crazy.
I don’t think that knowing the agenda is there is exactly the problem. Games like Final Fantasy 7 are very obviously about environmentalism and it’s often included in discussions about the best video game stories of all time.
In fact, I imagine most of us have a few games we love that have some pretty obvious in your face political overtones.
I also don’t buy “oh but games used to be much better at doing it” that some people try to claim. Barret is a black man leading a group of eco-terrorists(who are the good guys in this story) with a missing arm who rants about corporations killing the planet in the opening minutes of Final Fantasy 7.
I think there are plenty of criticism to throw at WoW’s writing(after all I’ve said that it’s never been good), but I think social media and the current culture war crap has also poisoned things even further than online discussion already was poisoned.
Even a point like “despite being fantasy, we’d like it to be grounded” just becomes another point about women and minorities while people ignore everything else in this game that isn’t grounded because “it’s a fantasy game!”(and I’m not referring to basic fantasy stuff like we can use magic).
I think you’re missing the point. In FF7, they’re not hitting us on the head with the message “oh look Barret is black! Oh he is a disabled man with a missing arm, look!”. They are displaying him as “just part of the team”. He just happens to be black. That’s it. We watch the drama unfold.
As for the environmentalism against corporate greed theme, which is a cyberpunk theme (and FF7 is a Japanese stab at the cyberpunk genre), you have a great point yes, but that’s part of the plot. It’s well setup because there is logic to it that we see in our real life today: Companies want to make money, companies will do whatever they can, at the expense of everyone and everything, to make that money and hold that power. Nothing seems “obtuse” about “inserting an agenda”, because the entire story in that game is founded upon that grounded narrative. The issue is when you’re trying to “make a statement” that seems to stick out like a sore thumb and takes you out of the story because it defies the logic of the story environment you’re in; or it’s obvious that the only reason it’s there is because you’re trying to make a statement that has nothing to do with the world you’re creating.
What’s largely been lost is that this is ultimately a fictional universe. Blizzard seems to be terrified of having a game that doesn’t resemble the real world demographically. But this isn’t the real world.
I don’t need you to make Anduin look weak to show me that Faerin is strong, show me she’s strong WITHOUT demeaning him. Anduin picking himself back up would’ve been huge for his character, but they decided to have someone else do it for him (unsurprisingly, a woman).
I don’t need you to show me that Brinthe is a good leader by having her predecessor be an arrogant jerk who sells out his own people and is as one dimensional as a line on paper. Elisande was a great example of a nuanced villain who joined the enemy out of a belief that there was no other way. Eirich was none of that.
I don’t need you to show me that Xal’atath is powerful by having Khadgar (supposedly the most powerful mage) get absolutely bodied in the introduction without putting up any fight at all. Give him a respectable exit at the very least.
Pandering at the expense of narrative quality is the absolute last thing Blizzard should be doing. It doesn’t appeal to the playerbase, doesn’t grow the playerbase, and only really resonates with a tiny vocal minority on social media who don’t even play.
And for the love of God can we stop with the “man sacrifices himself” trope?
I’d also like to bring up the new princesses.
Malfurion and Tyrande stepping down and putting Shandris Feathermoon in charge of the night elves, and Genn Greymane retiring and putting Tess in charge of the Worgen.
Sure it’s only two examples, but happening at the same time and followed by everything mentioned in this thread?
If you read all the lore behind this quest you would know that Baelgrim friend (Olberig or something) was the one that should’ve succeeded him in his position, not Lufsela, she literally appears out of nowhere and becomes the new Stormriders leaders lmao
Baelgrim friend was perfect to assume that position, it was the perfect ending for their friendship lore, they had a beef, they stopped talking and seeing each other, his friend (Baelgrim) died before he could make peace with him and now he is regretting not having resolved things with his friend that died, but to honor him and his memory he would become the new Stormriders leader and assume his position.
God that would’ve been an epic conclusion to a very cool bro story and with a very good message that we shouldn’t wait till it’s too late to talk with people we should’ve talked way before and solved our problems before time cuts life short…
But nooooooooooo random female perfect character without flaws appears out of nowhere and assumes his position because she’s perfect and can do anything urgh i’m tired of this trend