New xpack, all female leads? (Part 1)

Community General Discussion
3765

I don’t think anyone is saying we need that, but we also don’t need the majority to be female dominated either.

Again, the biggest problem in wow storytelling is how overt it is - purposely done to check boxes due to the lawsuits - so they need to overcompensate to look good. This reflects to stuff like “if i don’t know or cant write an intelligent character, i will make everyone else dumb” is the same of “if i don’t know or cant write good female characters, i will either make then act like male or make every other male bad”

Like @Torvald said, making dynamics is the key point here, giving reasons, and making things trully diverse. I think it makes more sense to me, that the orcs are lead by, majority, males. Why? they are lead by kratokracy, thus, the stronger lead, and with sexual dismorphy, the male are stronger than the female in most cases, period, its not up to debate. If a clan is lead by a female, it was a cool story of how she became a leader due to wits and strategy or shamanistic power/wisdom, it makes special and unique, Pretty much like Zaela became the dragonmaw chieftain back in Cataclysm. Same way humans will be lead by their KINGS, except in special cases like Jaina assuming the leadership of Kul’tiras due to her actions and the politic turmoil the place has being, who i don’t think had a monarchy after Daelin fell

But also i think it makes sense that races like, by example, Night elves and Taurens, can be more mathriarcal due to the priest and shamans roles and religion itself being more proehiment in their culture than martial might, thus, it makes sense that they are lead by a powerful priest(Tyrande) and it would be even great if the Tauren were lead by a powerful shaman → Maghata Grimtotem

See how this makes interesting dynamics and give races different traits with their own unique views and still can be diverse? I find that “every race is equal and every race see the roles of female and male to be the same” way too modern view, who doesn’t belong into the game or in this kind of fantasy, its a concept to the players, as we as a community are diverse and equal, regardless of where we come from or our color, but the game doesn’t and can’t reflect the society “we live in today”

Which is one of the reasons why i despise the horde bland council of useless bunch

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3766

Ah yes, “lose their marbles.” That too is how I describe anyone noticing and commenting on something.

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3767

At this point i just think your being obtuse on purpose. There was no wide spread craze to make half of every form of Branding or Representation female or half of all the CEOs female 15 years ago.

Theres been representation for years. Some better than others but instead of getting better we over corrected and now we have people freaking out over difference of opinion and telling people to leave a franchise that both probably enjoy.

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3768

I am not being “obtuse on purpose”. You just happen to be taking the side that is trying to drive women out of games completely, trying to drive non-christians, non-whites, non-anything-we-are out of existence. Your side is full of hatred. And egged on constantly by liars and psychopaths who have millions if not billions of views because their media is forced down people’s throats every day via content “recommendations”(heh) or social media outrage algorithms.

3770

Oh okay a troll. No where have i ever said any of those things and actually posted an opinion to the opposite. You’re iterally talking about the time period i grew up within the zeitgeist. The way you are representing it is very disengious or just lacks of experience.

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3771

It’s exactly what the person I was replying to said. They’re not even the only one who has said it in this thread.

3772

wew lad. we just dont like crappy writing and cringe characters in our media. thats not genocide.

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3773

Story is still too soft they threw a few cuss words but yeah no more tough guys anymore thralls barely been seen & Auduin is just a pretty boy lol hell I’d take Taran Zhu or Bain’s anybody.

3774

Its sadly the problem in this kind of discussion, because both sides will be extremists and unhinged, ignoring the critics and concerns.

A few hours ago we also had someone saying rly bad things and flagging people who they deem mysgonistic and all, showing how misandric they were. Its artificial conflict made to stir the pot because one side think the other is wrong and evil, thus, should be defeated and silenced

Its better to just ignore and it will die out, focus on the subject instead of the people

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3775

And if you are being serious this is why you will never get anywhere with the way you comphrend information.

Its like you’re having a completely different conversation as to the replys im posting.

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3776

Well on the positive note for the devs. Way less people are talking about Xal’s feet now.

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3777

bro you should read/skim the cliffnotes for the book “Is Reality Optional?” by Thomas Sowell. he explains how these delusional people’s world views are formed and how ‘real’ they are to those who hold them. we all have our own perceptions of reality shaped by our own experiences and abilities. some of us perceive the world in such warped ways that they will never be able to see things from your/my/someone else’s point of view because they literally do not have the experiences to draw upon or ability to comprehend what is outside their perceived ‘reality’. we all do this to some degree and learn to compromise our realities with others but some are beyond hope of ever being able to do so.

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3778

I just fail to see how male representation is a problem when it hasn’t been for years. Oh no now we have “women” and they are the problem!

But you aren’t looking at the bigger picture. You only see lack of males, when the things that really upset you might be … just bad writing overall? Being forced to watch every single dialogue like in-game dialogue is going out of style or something? And I’ll definitely agree that I don’t like seeing Anduin crying all the time, but at the end of the day he is a character in a story and what else is a character to do when bad things happen to them? If you expect him to just “be a man” so to speak and fight through it - maybe he wasn’t written like that in the first place.

If you’re going to complain about the forced interactions this game has when you are simply trying to quest and get to max level and unlock the silly pathfinder, I’m 100% with you there. But when you start blaming groups and minorities, that’s where I have a problem.

3779

Im sure this will get blasted but who cares its a video game forum. Whats really effed up is im actually a huge empath. I truly do think about people more than myself.

But I call out BS and this past 5-10 years is full of it. This is not empathy or diversity or representation the right way. Its tokenism and it sucks because there were great stories being told on the cusp of the 2010s that weren’t “cis male” or whatever but then this sickness took over. And now that i lament on all the amazing stories we will never get a chance to be told right. I get called a bigot or sexist. Even though some of my favorite figures are female

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3780

can you not acknowledge that the bad writing can be amplified by forced, hamfisted diversity for the sake of diversity? can you not acknowledge that valid criticisms of the bad writing DUE in part to the hamfisted diversity are a legitimate concern? when prioritizing good story/writing/characters is put beneath forced diversity for the sake of diversity?

no one in this thread has blamed minorities for the poorly implemented force diversity. everyone knows its bean counters in suits and activists in media causing this problem. who is blaming women or minorities for this?

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3781

Yeah, that’s why I don’t tend to take these threads seriously. It becomes about just pushing a point of view and winning an internet argument more than having an honest discussion about anything.

Though I am also a bit of a history nerd, and if people want to play the “but it’s not realistic” card I can unravel quite a bit of this setting without even touching on gender or stuff like magic.

So I do find it a bit weird when people draw the line on suspension of disbelief at “women are regularly in charge”.

Like I said though, I agree that there should be more men in the story and I get why a lot of people want somebody who isn’t like Anduin.

3783

See - THIS makes more sense to me. And I can agree with that. When you frame it this way, you rationally lay out what your concerns actually are in a way that is easy to understand and pick up.

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3784

Alright point me to where exactly I’m blaming minorities and groups?

In fact Ive called out multiple examples of well written females.

Lets take one from warcraft.

Jaina Proudmoore her story with Arthas. She was vulnerable with him. She was crushed by him. She is frankly forever changed by him.

Its a great story that i think they don’t tug on enough. (No i do not mean bring Arthas back)

But it would never be written today because no woman is ever made to be hurt or seem underfoot of a man. Not in modern writing.

You say i didnt notice it back then is the only reason i care now. No the fact we cant have well written stories because story telling has to be sacrificed because every story has to follow some guide book now to make sure everyone feels welcomed

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3785

You know what I do when I want to get in the feels i go watch Greys Anatomy or Friends, How I met your mother.

When i want to play sports games I play Madden or FM.

When i want to bust skulls and watch fantasy war i want that. I dont want a bunch of sulking throughout most of the zones and every boisterous loud mouth male being taught the errors of his ways. I want a female who i actually see be badass not be told Im supposed to know shes badass.

I want the King to be a King after 8 dang years.

One of the character being talked about most is Faerin.

I see it as this. Theyve made her as revered as Ned Stark was in GoT.

But what made Ned was his commitment to Honor and his loyalty. Not to mention his battle accolades.

However if thats all his character was no one would remember him past the first book/season.

His flaw was his Honor and Loyalty they displayed it multple times that it was his shield but also what might (and did) eventually get him killed.

With Faerin she doesnt even believe in the teachings of the Order yet shes revered as one of the best. Even when theres a slight hint as of people not believing in her they end up “realizing” how dumb they were. She doesn’t have any faults. Even her disability isnt hinted as a disadvantage or they wouldn’t let her command expeditions or lead.

Doesn’t mean she cant but dang would it kill you to put a scene in where we actually see her do something other than tell people how to better themselves.

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3786

Im also a history nerd, im starting my second graduation as a professor teacher recently, and im seeing the world with different eyes as well

But, its not rly “wrong” to say something fells off in fantasy because its not realistic, because fantasy is rooted in reality and based on the perceptions we have trough all our lives, and thats why we need care to change and evolve, otherwise will be meet with hostility. Like here, there is no explanations of why these things happens, is just “the way it was always”, despite we knowing isn’t the case. Would be cool to say/mention in hallowfall most soldiers and high ranking officers male died during the nerubian assaults or became too old to fight, its more deep than just “the previous leader died/became evil, now the woman assume cause she is better”

I give credit to RR martin who made a blog about dragons months ago, and how created his dragons based on real world animals, and this is a good quote from him, that makes sense here:

“Fantasy needs to be grounded. It is not simply a license to do anything you like. Ignore canon, and the world you’ve created comes apart like tissue paper.”

And imo, wow is ignoring way too much canon, to create more canon, i dread what they will do the Arathi empire, who have huge potential

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