That’s one of the problems I have with that. That we’re losing baseline abilities and maybe not get them back. Maybe we have to decide between our abilities that were baseline before and new abilities. Even worse, we have to decide between two old baseline abilities to lose one of them then.
I think I already brought that example up. As a shadow priest right now I have Fear and an interrupt. It could be the case that with the new system I have to decide between one of those two and therefore end up with less basics then before.
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How many of these you actually use all the time.
And you stated Mookin form as baseline which isnt. So my guess is you only use balance abilities either. So who cares if you lose rake, maul, iron fur. If you want them make your class tree move around Tank/healer spec.
The nice thing about new trees is you can build however you want. You can decide to be a tanky healer. Or a Tank with dps abilities to clear dungeon better.
You get these baseline abilities either way. Or you can choose to replace them for something you normally didnt had access too
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But we’re only getting 10 new levels, which means 10 new talent points. Which means most of these abilities will be earned before level 60. In which case, we don’t need to earn them back by leveling, we’re already level 60. I’d be extremely surprised if something like your dispel or interrupt was not earnable before level 60.
The base abilities aren’t going to be removed. We’ll just gain them via the talent tree instead of just leveling up.
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It certainly will be, I guess. But that’s not even the big problem. The problem is whether we have to sacrifice other baseline abilities we already had for another ability, like I stated in a previous post.
Like… your current baseline was one stun and one interrupt. And the concern is that maybe you then have to decide between one of those two and then have less utility than before.
They’re going to be removed from baseline, yes. And then get added back as talents, but maybe not so that we get all of them back.
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logs off level 60 paladin
creates new level 1 paladin
“Damn, they took all my abilities.”
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You’ll also be getting things you don’t currently have like an Interrupt as a Holy Paladin just going by the Q&A.
My only issue is giving players the option to not have an interrupt or any other current ability that’s part of the core kit for a given Class like Purge with Shaman.
Are we going to get into M+ runs with DPS who can’t interrupt because they didn’t want to use a Talent point on one?
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Maybe we can hope for those points being improved versions of the baseline abilities instead. I want to believe they wouldn’t do something that’s been proven to be almost universally hated by their own player base in the past and make it one of the main features of the new expansion.
We all know how mostly everyone hates being stripped of their baseline abilities and being given them back as optional. That’s why I want to believe on them being improved upon, not being mutually exclusive with something else like having to choose between a baseline interrupt and a stun for example.
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That’s the main concern I’m seeing at reddit. That could be the case. But there’s hope that Blizzard won’t offer the choice between an interrupt and a damage skill, but rather between interrupt, stun or … I don’t know… a knockback.
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That’s the likely scenario since Interrupts should be in the Utility Tree but Blizz makes odd choices sometimes.
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If we thought the outrage coming from the AoE cap was big (justifiably so), I can’t even imagine what will happen when this is available for testing.
Because as has been said in one of the recent interviews (I want to say the Hazel and Ion one) it is to move away from the system everyone hates of grinding out a borrowed power, then discarding it all to start over.
I’m going to use BM hunter as an example cause it is the class I know best.
The BM hunter has 15 abilities that are considered it’s core play style.
5 are active abilities key to rotation
5 are passives abilities that enhance power and rotation.
3 are situational utility
1 is their mastery.
So in the worst case scenario; I’m going to have to spend 14 points in the Spec tree to get all those abilities back; that’s 14 out of the 30 they said the spec tree would have at max level, and still leaves me 16 other talents in the tree to take. (Since in the interviews they have said almost all of the talents only take 1 point to get their max potential except in a few rare cases.) That also still leaves me 31 points in the class tree to spend, that isn’t any of my core spec stuff.
But let’s say instead all my utility abilities end up in the class tree instead of the spec tree. My Intimidation (Stun), Counter Shot (Interrupt), and Concussive Shot (Slow). Well that now means I’ve only got to spend 11 of my 30 spec tree points in that tree and still have 19 more, and spend 3 of the 31 class tree points and still have 28 more to spend.
As for the 20 base abilities I get from the hunter class; not counting the borrowed power or ones that are extras you learn from books (Like fetch, play dead, and fire works.) I only use 9 of them consistently in my core play as the other 11 are mostly infrequent situational uses. So even if I had to take all 20 from the class talent tree; I’d probably only use the 9 points for the abilities I use frequently and not take the ones I don’t use, unless I was specing for a special situation.
So in total that is a possible 20 abilities that add to the class tree and a possible 14 abilities they add to the spec tree for BM hunters. That’s a total of 34 points. Not all of those abilities are guaranteed or confirmed to be earned from the talent trees (we’re also not taking into account they’ve said multiple times you’ll get a couple of talents in each tree already given to you for no points once you select your spec), but let us say that is still the worst case. that 34 of the 61 talent points we get are used up (20 in the class tree, 14 in the spec tree) that is still 27 points for you to invest in other talents as you level.
But I think the key thing to take away from my break down as to why the way you want it is impractical are these key numbers; 34 current base line abilities and 61 total talent points. The BM hunter when combining spec and class baseline abilities has 34 of them regardless what they do and how often they are used. If given all those baselines on just this one class spec combination would mean on top of 34 base line abilities you would have 61 talent points to spend between two trees. That would lead to a balancing nightmare as well as extreme button bloat (which they removed a lot of abilities in the past for that reason) making the game overall less enjoyable and most likely even less fun than having to earn your core abilities from the tree, if they just kept adding new talents or functions on top of the current baseline abilities.
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Personally when I saw the new talent tree, it looked like every generic P2W MMO and LoL rip off talent tree and was immediately worried
Don’t forget some abilities appear 2 or 3 times, maybe more in both trees combined. In some cases you’d need to spend possibly 3 or more points to have the ability do everything it can if they are separating the ranks we have now into different talent points.
Of course I’m also assuming those are the same abilities based on their icon, which might very well not be true in the end. All in all, I’m definitely worried, but we still don’t have enough information yet to make sure that’s really the case.
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I’m excited.
If you are a brand new player, you’ll learn your new class with new spells as you move up and it’s a new talent at every level; so, don’t get over-whelmed.
If you are a max player at 60, you begin to build your tree and you are sort of forced to get the base spells and you’ll find some flavor along the way. I saw in the example picture of the balance druid that the “druid side” was all on the right side, so they were super specific about why they wanted to go.
Now, if we had all of our base spells outside of the tree and were given (say) 60 brand new talents to plug in – we’d be given a whole lot of junk mixed in with the meaningful things. Or the talent tree would be itty bitty.
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People will still min/max and go to Icyveins.
So as a casual player you would think I’d be hyped up since I’m not under any stress to min/max, but the other players are.
I have no choice and will just default to what more interested parties tell me to pick. Because frankly I don’t care either way.
So to me talent trees are pointless.
Notice the shapes of the talents that are circled in red that are the the same. They broke down talents for that too.
Circle is a passive talent
Square and active talent
Octagon with arrows you get to select between two talents.
In that tree the circled ones are
A selectable talent and a passive talent with the same icon
And, a active talent and a passive talent with the same icon
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Yes, but what I’m saying is that it isn’t as simple as spending just 1 point to get an ability back since you might need to spend more to get all its functionalities. We don’t know everything about the system yet, but let’s hope it’s better than we think it is.
The talent tree is just bad nostalgia.
Illusion of choice like it’s predecessor.
lmao.
Yeah, just like now you could pick a lot of the passive choices and maybe not be as powerful as you would be with a new spell but you also don’t have a huge handful of spells to cast. Picking all of the active ones might be way to much for anyone with the GCD.