New talent trees mean removal of our baseline abilities?

Community General Discussion
#1

So… today I’ve read the explanations on how the new reworked talent trees will function and what the devs have in mind on what abilities and talents there will be. I had high hopes for this system and was looking forward to it, but now I’m a bit unsettled.

According to the anwers that have been listed there, a lot of the baseline abilities we usually gain automatically by leveling up a character will be removed and instead put into the talent tree. So we don’t really gain a lot of new stuff, but have to earn our existing spells back.

There will still be some abilities that are granted to players from leveling up, but significantly fewer.

Other than that, we’re trying to put as many combat related abilities in the tree as we can, which does mean you are going to have to invest talent points into the system to get your current abilities back.

They will keep abilities like Astral Recall or Teleports as baseline because they are not combat altering but want to put as much combat-altering abilities as they can into the new talent system. Plus they want to offer choices between utility like interupts, CC, dispels and stuff. My concern is that they will strip every class of their baseline kicks and CC abilities and instead of having Fear and Interrupt as a Shadow Priest for example and altering or enhance these spells via talents, you lose both and have to chose between one of those two to get one back. Or that every healer is losing the Dispel ability and have to earn it back through talent points. It looks like this will be the case when reading other parts of the interview.

If they’re really going to go for something like that, I’m already extremely disappointed and I think this is a really lazy and boring design choice. I want them to keep every baseline ability we have right now and just add new and additional things to talent trees plus enhancement and alterations of our baseline spells.

What do you think about that?

25 Likes
#2

I gave my thoughts on that thread.

I don’t think it sounds fun because it sounds like they’re taking things away just so we can earn them through leveling to make us artificially feel stronger by making us weaker first.

50 Likes
#3

I like it. It increases customization. Druids have had a dumbed down version of this in their affinity row. Considering we have load outs for this new system, you could have builds that are better suited to what you’re doing when you’re doing it.

Nvm that a new character has no abilities and a leveled character has all their abilities.

18 Likes
#4

If you’re just starting to level, nothing’s been taken from you…you start with nothing. If you’re max level, you already have your full array talent points to spend, aside from the extras you may get from 61-70, so spec into the abilities you want, problem (or lack thereof) solved.

35 Likes
#5

Yeah, I’ve read your post and also gave it a heart. It’s well written!

But wouldn’t it also increase customization to just… keep our abilities and add new talents to enhance or alter them? If we just use the system to get our usual baseline abilities instead of getting them automatically while leveling up, then we don’t need a new talent system tbh. That’s a waste of ressources then.

5 Likes
#6

No. Let’s say that divine storm is something I can talent into. Not saying it is. I have 0 access to it right now as prot. What about light of dawn? I can think of uses for these as prot.

2 Likes
#7

But one doesn’t automatically negate the other.

Let’s say you have Divine Storm as baseline ability for Retribution Paladin but not for Prot. But then you can go into the Prot tree and chose it. That would also be an option.

I also don’t want Dispel for healers removed and put into the talent tree. Let the healer specs keep their dispel and offer an additional choice for DPS and tanks to get it.

Or just, you know, BE CREATIVE, devs and keep all baseline abilities and put NEW spells into the tree so that there still is a lot of customization.

3 Likes
#8

Except that’s not the case.

Take the druid tree they posted. You lose:

Rake
Sunfire
Rejuvenation
Maul
Swiftmend
Thrash
Rip
Skill Bash/Solar Beam
Ironfur
Cyclone
Moonkin Form
Starsurge
Maim
Wild Growth
Typhoon

Those are baseline skills, or learned via affinity talents based on spec currently.

All of those must be talented into to have.

And those are just the talents from the class tree, not even the spec trees.

We know a few points will be given for each spec, so resto will likely get rejuv and Swiftmend for instance.

But they essentially stripped our base toolkit and added them as talents and restricted us from being able to get them all back at the same time.

They artificially make us feel stronger by making us weaker first.

25 Likes
#9

For max level players I just don’t see it as an issue unless they move something to requiring level 61-70 to access. Abilities get shuffled around between expansions all the time. And if you’re leveling a new character then you haven’t unlocked the ability regardless if it’s learned automatically, or you have to put a point into it.

And as for keeping what we have, we can have too much eventually. Ability bloat does become a thing. The beauty of the tree is instead of just being handed one ability from a prior expansion they can add the cool ones and let the player chose what they like.

7 Likes
#10

This makes no sense because you posit your hypothetical that’s the reality right now.

You seem very stuck on spec identity to the detriment of class identity. I don’t care about being a protection paladin I’m a tank paladin.

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#11

But surely you have to chose between some of them. So of all these baseline abilities we have now we won’t have everything at the end of the day. There will be skills missing then probably.

#12

How many of these do you have at level 1 or 10, though?

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#13

I’ve gotta see how it turns out before I get my pitchfork. Seeing a blurry screenshot of like 2 specs isn’t nearly enough for me to make a judgement call on on the system.

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#14

Doesn’t matter? You have to actively choose which abilities you get back.

When they shouldn’t be taken away in the first place lol.

12 Likes
#15

Which, if they’re important enough, you’ll choose and have anyway.

That’s, like, your opinion, man.

Anything I have now, I’ll get right back as soon as I fill out the tree. If I care enough about that skill.

8 Likes
#16

My imagination says this talent system could be amazing as hell. My reality says, anything interesting is going to be placed so far down into the tree it there actually won’t be a sense of choice.

Imagine being a Restohance Shaman. Resto with storm strike, lava lash, while having the capabilities of Maelstrom Healing Rain, Healing Tide, and all that good stuff.

2 Likes
#17

Does no one understand how talent trees work?

Yes, you will be stripped down to nothing because you are coming in fresh to this system.

But if you are at a high level, you will have a pile of points sitting there for you to use to create your own build.

If you want to spend them on abilities you consider baseline, then you can. If you don’t, you can create something new.

It is your choice.

So much for all those cries for player agency.

27 Likes
#18

I’m in the same boat, right now I’m cautiously optimistic about getting talent trees back but slightly concerned we’re just going to have a shuffle of what we already have and possibly end up worse off in some cases because two things that we currently have baseline could end up mutually exclusive.

Maybe I’m just accustomed to Blizzard giving with one hand while they take with the other lol

6 Likes
#19

You already have to pick and choose depending on the affinity you take. It’s too early to tell what combos are possible, but we’ve had to pick between abilities before. Also just from going from 60 to 61 you’ll be weaker as the value of your stats will decrease compared to your level.

6 Likes
#20

If they do it right according to level it’ll be ok ,it has to be smooth out though.