And their “current” society is a little over 100 years old; entirely self-made in what truly was a ruthlessly cruel world; and highly reflective of a race that spent 3000 years in slavery. With how materialistic and short-sighted they are. They are also hardly the only race that destroys their environment, just the most reckless and obvious when looking at the Bilgewater branch (but the Steamwheedle have never been that bad). No-one isn’t saying that they do need to change, but the general theme is “if you were still slaves you wouldn’t be condemned to purgatory, because the culture you developed from your act of freeing yourself is unacceptable” is very real here.
Because remember folks, the NEs taking several THOUSAND years WITH guidance to get to their current perfectly in tune with nature ways (and all it cost was 80 percent of the World’s landmass to secure that) … is fine because NOW they’re great. Sure the entire Goblin current civilization and culture is less than .07 of Tyrande’s estimated lifespan, but they totally deserve purgatory for being such a “young race” in their current iteration.
I’d caution reading too entirely deep into this book. There is a lot of interesting stuff in it for sure, but some of it is by their own admission just a tall tale. Take all of it with a grain of salt until they prove/indicate otherwise like they did with the Chromie story.
Also, on Goblins.
I’d actually argue that Goblins who were not total immoral jerks would mostly get split between Craftenium and whatever is the core realm of the Brokers—Engineering and Trade, respectively.
That is, you can have sin and not be punished for it if it is part of your culture, shaped by difficult circumstances?
That is, you can not be punished for theft if your ancestors lived by theft (having no other way to exist)? The reason why your ancestors stole has long since disappeared.
Russian
То есть вы можете иметь грех и не быть наказанными за это, если это является частью вашей культуры, сформированной тяжелыми обстоятельствами?
То есть можно не нести наказания за воровство, если твои предки жили воровством (не имея других способов существовать)? Причина, из-за которой ваши предки воровали, давно исчезла.
I mean, if anything, Night Elf society has degraded, they used to be Nightborne for the most part, both sociologically and biologically they’ve become less high society in both culture and stature.
As for the Goblins, they also were partially responsible for arming Deathwing (formerly Neltharion) with the Dragonsoul and crafting his armor…
Do you truly believe that the Kaldorei Empire was created while not having some negative environmental impacts? Or the cultures constant increase in fixation to the Arcane? We’ve seen Blackrook Hold? We’ve seen the scale of their cities? And like it or not those who live within the NE groups did benefit from that civilization up until Azshara went nuts and started cavorting with demons. They had several thousand years to get even to what they saw before the sundering, despite all their guidance and advantages … and yet Goblins are being condemned for what they’ve created in a tiny fraction of that timespan. Its friggen ridiculous.
Goblin society in its current iteration has only been around for about .07 of Tyrande’s estimated lifespan, and they’ve been forced to build up from nothing (less then nothing, they were property) with no help or guidance. Yet, apparently, what they created so far is not acceptable and they’re condemned as a race to purgatory (even the kids). Hell, with Gobs pathetic lifespans they should have stayed slaves if thats the case. They were wrong to free themselves from those heavy metal mines if it meant their environment/history would shape them wrong.
The moment they moved toward a arcane society, cenarius stopped his support because the leading people chosed to ignore his advise. They explored arcane magic on their own, no one helped them there.
They did, but they are not to blame for this! Its no crime to be born in such a culture.
They conquered the world and ruled there like the trolls before them. What the highborne and Azshara later did was not their fault.
They still had Elune. She was still believed to sleep in the WoE. The Kaldorei people (even the NEs) still exploited and lived in the Luxuries/Advantages that that Arcane civilization brought them. Even if they didn’t practice Arcane themselves (and many did). Or did you think Cenarius built those Temples of Elune? Those great cities spanning accross that Mega continent. And yes, the NEs found their way back eventually to the teachings of Cenarius … but they took time to get to that state once they veered from it. Lets not pretend the NEs popped into existence flawless and perfect. They had thousands of years to finally settle back/develop to what they have now. Even before the Sundering. So with Gobs, were talking about a story that seems to imply that an entire Race is condemned to purgatory … because they’re just starting that journey. Without the help.
Not because they are goblins but because their culture is based on greed and cruelty. To harm other for their own benefit its not only a “flaw”, its a toxic behavior.
This is not actually… correct. The Highborne were always a small fraction of the population living in their mighty arcane cities, while most of the Kaldorei were country folk living in villages and by old folk ways of their ancestors. Ultimately the arcane elite and their megalomaniacal queen blew up the world and it was left to the survivors (mostly country folk) to put the pieces back together.
When the sundering occurred, however, that learning was not entirely lost, it merely was shifted in focus. One of the best things they showed in Legion was how academic Cenerion druidism actually is. I mean think about it, there is a lot to learn about: Botany, Husbandry, actual nature magic itself… one can argue there may even be some practice of astrology among the druids of the moon.
Goblins are not condemned for what they have created and spoiled in these five hundred years. They are judged for their actions, intentions and attitude towards everything that surrounds them. Each is individually. There are no sins of fathers passed on to children. The children themselves committed sins.
To be honest, if we assume for a moment that a possible opportunity of fiction is to explore opportunities and limitation of various ideas in different contexts, would that mean that the real damage of Shadowlands [to the WoW universe as a setting] is not yet fully explained?
I mean, suddenly, there is 1 final “judge” of what is sin or what is not. No matter times, culture, failures and successes, role in the events. Nothing matters in the cultural context, because there is 1 correct™ path to follow, and unquestionable sins™ no matter contexts or the nature of creatures.
I never though about it, but it takes the ideas of “moral absolutism” as presented by the current dev team, to the whole new level of absurd.
The Goblins are far from the only race to have a tragic history. In fact, it’s the norm. The humans got abandoned by their parents and left to fend for themselves in a completely foreign land, and later had most of their kingdoms destroyed. The orcs were first slaves to the Orgres, and later they ended up as Bloodthirsty puppets of the legion. The Draenei have been on the run for millennia upon milennia, all the while enduring hardship after hardship, and the list goes on for pretty much all the races. But of all the playable races, Goblins are the only ones with such an overwhelming ammount of negative traits compared to the positive ones. So I don’t think “they had it tough” is a valid excuse or as mitigating as you think, when every race has had it tough, and a lot of them far more so than the Goblins.
But that’s the thing. Their culture imparts negative traits to the Goblins. Traits that later has to be dealt with by the ventyrs, because otherwise there’s a significant risk that the Goblins will eff up the afterlives they are assigned to, which is obviously something that should be avoided.
And it’s not as much of a punishment, as something that needs doing. Once the Gobbos are done, they proabaly get sent off to the Great party, or whatever it’s called. It just takes a bit more time because they have to make a detour, or rather some of them do.
Most elven territories went under during the Sundering, not just the cities. Like look at the actual maps of the empire for comparison with the modern continents. It stretches from Darkshore to almost all the way to Quel’thalas at its widest
Azshara and her inner circle brought ruin to a lot of innocent elves who refused to believe she was responsible for the Legion in the first place in the end.