New lore reveal in books. Elune, Azeroth, Sylvanas

You shouldn’t be absolved of “sin”, but your living conditions and situation should be taken into consideration when judging those “sins”. Especially for a CHILD. I also fail to see how Goblin’s greed is inherently a sin, in of itself. If taken to the extremes like Wix does, it can certainly be evil … but Gazlowe is greedy and he’s hardly what I’d call a bad guy. Most Goblins (Mida, Sassy, Noggenfogger, Grizzek, Renzik, Grapplehammer) … are more in line with Lowe than Wix. The idea that they’d be condemned for that cultural materialism (which absolutely is a cultural trend that can be a byproduct of millenias as slaves) is horrific.

What you are essentially saying, those who are “CHOSEN” (like Draenei and Kaldorei) are just inherently good because they were privelaged enough to be guided to the right cultures by benevolent demi-gods. And races who more “negative” traits in their cultures due to environmental factors are sinners who need to be punished.

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I don’t have to put words in my mouth. I don’t send night elves to Ardenweald after ten thousand years of caring for nature.

Goblins will build businesses everywhere. And only recently has he become less dirty and unprincipled. Let the generation die, raised exclusively by “noble” goblins, and then we’ll see where they will be distributed.

It’s Schrodinger’s Canon because Chromie’s story was declared canon.

Shadowlands has at the very least revealed to me the moral/ethical compass and the theological beliefs of the Developers are unfathomably bad or at least severely lacking, where children get sent to Purgatory lol

Like zero effort was done in researching and incorporating a sound soteriology, harmatology, anything at all really.

Good luck, as any lore we get from here on out will be 9 times out of 10 an “in-universe perspective”.

Which, by the way, are literally colonial theological arguments for the subjugation of the Muslim world and Asia, enslavement of Africans, subjugation of the Amerindigenous peoples, and the horizontal violence among Western Europeans on the basis of ethnoreligious hegemony.

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What? What did they do? Stay up past bed time? Caught stealing from the cookie jar? Genuinely curious what they could come up with to justify a child ending up in purgatory and not making it weird.

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Oh, what could a horse have done (or be willing to do) to get to Revendreth?

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It was “Ruffianism” that was described as the sin.

It was weird and cringe tbh.

Terribad implications.

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You don’t say lol…

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That’s what the book was suppose to be. Literally fairytales and fables.

I’ll like to think there are “tiers” of what is canon and what isn’t. A book that markets itself as being a compilation of tall tales that may or may not be canon is at the bottom of that list.

Also, “character prespective” book like the Shadowland artifact book seems like they are generally true until the character themselves does some sort of speculation analysis

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That’s the thing, Blizzard’s harmatology is incoherent

  • Animals can go to Purgatory
  • Children can go to Purgatory
  • Some people are auto-damned (no Universal Possible Salvation), but unclear criteria
  • The Psychopomps are able to circumvent the Cosmic Judge
  • Ancestor-practices are not integral to the Shadowlands (because who cares about Horde development)
  • Elune is more relevant in the Shadowlands than any Horde practices, because reasons
  • The source of Anima for Ardenweald doesn’t make sense proportionate to its consumption, and the fact it’s the only realm that is a net loss since Wild Gods are restored via anima and they leave
  • Things can “die” in the Shadowlands (what?) to begin with like

Seem, not is.

Which would’ve been fine but they just had to include LGBT stories about real characters we knew about lol

The whole book should have been cultural folklore stories of characters that we either were unfamiliar with, are long dead (like Anduin Lothar, or Thoradin) or characters that have folklore to begin with (e.g. the Wild Gods, Bwonsamdi, etc).

Blizzard forced their own hand because the community has a lot of homophobes and transphobes lol

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Harmotology - the science of sin?

  • Animals - were there only Savraska (Blanches) in Revendreth or were there “wild” animals as well? Not domesticated.
  • Children are not sinless. Probably.
  • All practices are not part of Shadowlands, except for the troll practice.
  • Only the “sister” of the Winter Queen and the goddess of the Accuser. It is more influential than relevant. It’s not that shamans are doing anything other than stealing souls. Or is it that I know little about shamanism there?
  • Yes, Ardenveld is unprofitable. I don’t see any problems.
  • What is wrong with death after death?
Russian

Harmotology - наука о грехе?

Животные - в Ревендрете была только Савраска (Бланчи) или были и “дикие” животные? Не одомашненные.
Дети не безгрешны. Наверно.


Все практики не являются частью Shadowlands, кроме практики троллей.
Всего лишь “сестра” Зимней королевы и богиня Обвинительницы. Она скорее более влиятельна, нежели актуальна. Не то чтобы шаманы занимались чем-либо кроме “воровства” душ. Или это я там мало знанаю о шаманизме?
Да, Арденвельд убыточен. Не вижу никаких проблем.
Что плохого в смерти после смерти?

They are in literally every culture and tradition because sin requires awareness and intent and children don’t have the intellectual capacities to understand sin to begin with. Children are stupid, and thus innocent due to their stupidity, and thus pure due to their innocence.

And yes you know nothing about shamanism in-game.

The idea of dying in the land of Death full of dead people is just straight up incoherent. The forces of Death should be literally eternal, undying, unable to be defeated.

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Like, I have absolutely no qualms about setting shredders on fire with the pilot still inside.

In fact I consider it a good deed even on my horde alts.

But the idea that every goblin deserves to be in the same afterlife as world killers is messed up.

To a point where I half want to change my mind and say give the banshee queen the afterlife she’d earned before the scourge, just to piss you off personally.

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I think that has little to do with it, and more to do with the Goblins current history. That being a society where greed is a virtue, and where doing anything for profit is the norm and expected. They destroy the enviroment completely hedless of the consequences for anyone, including themselves. And loyalty is something to be bargained with and exchanged at a moments notice. That doesn’t lend itself to individuals that would avoid ending up in Revandreth. And the things i’m stating about the Goblins isn’t new stuff or a retcon, it’s as old as Vanilla.

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Are you sure you can endure children’s antics forever? They would be killed quickly in Maldraxus; most would not be in Ardenweald. I do not know. They still have to be managed by someone, or someone has to guide them. In Shadowlands, souls don’t change over time, just through rituals? There may be such a Covenant, but it is not a mandatory part of the system. And the duty of the venti is to make souls harmless to Shadowlands. I don’t know what danger hooliganism is.

Thus, Death conquers the other five forces. Provide a solution. Will the other five forces steal “eternal” souls? Countless immortal legions…

Russian

Вы уверены, что сможете вечность терпеть детские выходки? В Малдраксусе их быстро убьют, в Арденвельд большинство не попадут. Не знаю. Ими все равно должен кто-то управлять, или кто-то должен их направлять. В Shadowlands души ведь не изменяются со временем, только через ритуалы? Возможно, такой Ковенант предусмотрен, но он не является обязательной частью системы. А долг вентиров - делать души безвредными для Shadowlands. Не знаю какую опасность несет хулиганство.

Таким образом Смерть побеждает остальные пять сил. Предоставьте решение. Остальные пять сил будут воровать “вечные” души? Бесчисленные бессмертные легионы…

It is true that there genuinely are people who are cruel and perhaps even evil, who also happen to be minors, but in fiction like WoW this… isn’t something we like to think about.

How in the same vein we prefer not to think much about what happens to dead babies in Shadowlands. It’s dark stuff.

So a joke about a kid ending up in WoW purgatory because he was naughty, I guess, comes off as low-key tone deaf.

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This is probably the creepiest thing I’ve ever read in these forums. And that says a lot.

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Revendreth is just a stopover. You will all end up in the same afterlife. Later.
In the meantime, give up the idea that you need to use everyone and everything, just to get higher.

Yeah I’m tired of entertaining people’s weird psycho neuroses when they straight up have no idea what they’re talking about lmao

A lot of yall and the story team have some weird as hell notions of soteriology and harmatology and would benefit greatly from reading a damn book on the matter.

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What’s wrong with this idea?

Edit.
What’s wrong with waiting for the death of a goblin raised by “noble” goblins and seeing where he was assigned? If assigned to Revendreth, compare its stone of sin with the stones of the goblins of the past. If they are the same - see which goblin gets rid of the stone faster.

Russian

Что плохого в том, что дождаться смерти гоблина, воспитанного “благородными” гоблинами и посмотреть куда его распределили? Если распределили в Ревендрет - сравнить его камень греха с камнями гоблинов прошлого. Если они одинаковы - посмотреть, какой гоблин быстрее избавиться от камня.

You’re starting from the premise of an inherent racial inborn evil, why would it not be considered creepy.

Honestly reading your weird diatribes is just giving me ideas for plot developments that I suspect would annoy you personally, for fun.

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