Better slow down with your logic he will call you mean names
Does it prove that you can use inaccuracies as a full and complete argument against all aspects of private servers, as one does by making broad claims against them? Absolutely not.
The fact that nobody but Blizzard knows the specific data points, means youâre a fool if youâre trying to use those data points as a device in your argument, especially when it comes to judging the degrees in which private servers are wrong.
How do you know to which degree theyâre wrong? How can the claim be made that theyâre wrong to such a degree that itâs âshockingâ, as was claimed?
Really, how do you know if youâre not Blizzard?
Again, itâs completely illogical to make such a claim, and once again itâs arguing against guesswork by using guesswork. We just keep going back to the same situation. Guesswork v Guesswork.
And I forgot to point this out but, heres a perfect example of it. I didnt say private servers were horrible. They have inaccuracies but stop putting words in my mouth. Those servers worked freaking hard to get as close as they did. And Nano and his team deserve lots of credit for it. But there ARE inaccuracies, and many of them. And I can provide evidence if you really care to derail the thread like that. Or you could Google with a date range of 2004-2009 and search specific instance names like Mara and just ⌠watch the videos. If you are familiar with the LH and Kronos core you will immediately notice the differences.
2 Likes
Fair
So far weâre in agreement
I could, but this was not my argument to begin with. Itâs not on me to prove the argument youâre making. Thatâs the problem I have with people on these debates. Itâs not up to me to prove that your statements are not guesswork. If you want your argument to hold weight, provide the facts. God, the unlimited amount of respect I have for people that provide facts, specific facts pertaining to the exact argument being made, to back up their claims.
Any of you guys ever worked in the corporate world and tried to suggest a change to the board? I can tell you one thing, if you walk in without data, theyâre going to laugh you out of the room.
I dont have a problem with this, like I said, Im a big nerd and have literally been collecting footage of proof and patch notes planning to submit them to them this summer before the core gets its last update from the LH team and open sourced. But before we go posting this stuff that nobody but us cares about:
Lets agree to not move the goal posts here eh? Im not going to post all this stuff if you are just going to circle and move the goalposts. I mean, afterall you are literally asking me to prove something the literal developers of the private server cores have already readily said is true so⌠I didnât realize it was even necessary to âprovide dataâ. The corporate world would actually take that into account.
Thereâs no point in talking more with you about this. You wanted proof. I gave you a scenario where they were âprovedâ wrong. Now youâre asking for more data points.
Youâre very similar to others in the extreme private server camp. You want believe to the fullest in your servers. Thatâs fine.
But the evidence is all there that there are many, many things wrong with private servers. Whether you choose to believe it is is up to you.
But stop with the name calling. Not just yourself, but the slew of other private server cultists as well. Itâs not a good look.
1 Like
I work in data. Nothing gets me going like proof. I am very ready to see the differences. To me this is learning. Itâs knowledge and helps me plan my time in Classic. Interesting too that Iâm most interested in your claim, about loot being wrong, because I really need to not be wrong about loot when it comes to Classic.
Yeah, Im trying to avoid exactly this. Ill post proof. But not if folks are just going to back away and continuously move the goalposts. Thats a waste of my time, and Im hungry as hell right now.
Proved wrong on a specific topic, thatâs very nice. I donât think you even made a claim against private servers in this thread that asks for specific data, so I donât think you really have anything to prove? I have to look and see if you did because Iâm not sure
Yeah I have only ever said the opposite of this remark. Iâve only ever said that I agree theyâre wrong, but I added that we donât know how wrong they are.
Saying âmany many thingsâ does not prove âall thingsâ or âa specific thingâ
So you use name calling to tell me I shouldnât be calling people names? Okay
Youâre the only one giving me any hope on this topic. I want you to give specific proof to back up your claim. Iâm like the joker playing chicken with batman right now. hit me. HIT ME. I want you to hit me!
This is for my sanity. Youâll be the first person Iâve seen who backs up their claim with hard, irrefutable evidence.
Just so weâre clear, the original statement was that there are bosses that have incorrect loot tables, and youâre going to show me that statement was not a false statement. Those are the goal posts, yes?
They talk allot about difficulty and challenge in the classic game, compared to BFA some will still be there but unless they do an overall balance pass on those early raid tiers, it will be a cakewalk.
1.12 was wow at its easiest point (except naxx which was the most challenging point of vanilla wow).
Lets start small.
Maraudon
LH Core:
Landslide: Currently scripted to use his stun at 50%, he then summoned rock adds.
This is wrong:
https: //ww w.youtube. com/watch?v=0sU8C6VzcfE&
https: //ww w.youtube. com/watch?v=XFQqm9IMq5o
His stun wasnât at a fixed percentage, the videos shows this. It appears to be possibly time based with some videos showing him summoning adds twice in a fight even, depending on length. Many of the vanilla videos show the players rushing him down asap to avoid that mechanic entirely.
He also despawned his adds at the moment of his death and the group would get partial exp for the adds that were damaged while he was alive, instead of the adds just staying alive regardless of his death they way they do on this core. Small issue, but still wrong.
Princess:
LH Core: Still uses dustcloud randomly every so often even if no one or nothing is in melee range, allowing you to basically just walk away from her much easier. This was patched early in Vanilla WoW and she was changed before 1.12 to only use Dustcloud if someone on her aggro table was within range of the AoE and she had LoS of that person. This means she would chase you down and ONLY use Dustcloud when you were at the tip of the range of her dustcloud instead of literally using it while you are 60+ yards away or out of LOS like on LH:
http: //wowwiki .wikia.com /wiki/Princess_Theradras
Patch 1.3.0 (07-Mar-2005): Boulders thrown will now cause a knockdown as well. She will also be more intelligent about deciding when to use her Dust Field ability.
https: //ww w.youtube. com/watch?v=IBwCtvbxnEg&t=8s
https: //ww w.youtube. com/watch?v=e9nA1bp9fnM&
https: //ww w.yo utube. com/watch?v=HbeEMNkaSog&
https: //ww w.youtube. com/watch?v=7e6dRnHrXXs&
https ://ww w.youtube. com/watch?v=pmGeM7ezadg
Krono Core:
Princess literally resets after she cannot reach anyone on her aggro table after a certain period of time once you path near the two rocks that frame the entry to her platform. She literally just resets, heals and runs back and starts her pathing around in a circle again. I have no idea how this one is so bad. Probably a bug. But she doesnât reset normally. LH core doesnt have this problem.
Rotgrip:
LH Core: Im pretty sure this one was acknowledged in a screenshot some years back? But Hes undertuned for damage dealt, and undertuned for his armor. Armor is understandable, the devs have said multiple times only Blizz has official armor and resist numbers so them getting this wrong is understandable, but his damage is WAY lower. Crits blueberrys for 600+ on live, doesnât come close to it on LH core:
https: //www. youtube. com/watch?v=pkI_Za9P4BY&index=70&
You will have to watch the damage on the petdisplay the combat log isnt legible.
This basically made him tankier than LH is now. You would need to heal your VW because he dealt significantly more melee damage to your Blueberry. He would also as a result eat through your sacrifice faster. Also Im working on testing his rip debuff to make sure hes attempting it 100% that its up on LH, I believe on Live he always used it on cooldown and the only way the debuffs dropped off was if you dodged or parried it, versus I think on LH he sometimes fails to even try it when it should be off cooldown, but I need a lot more testing for that, as well as finding attack logs from vanilla which might be impossible.
Sidenote: formatting this crap is a pain, It wont let me post links so I have to put spaces everywhere. This is a mess.
Edit: Wait a minute I didnt see the end there. You added another qualifier. I said scripting is incorrect as well as some mob loot tables. I said both. Theres not really any loot innaccuracies in Mara (there are elsewhere) with the exception of when they changes Princesses loot table in classic from One blue item and one green item (you can see it in many of the videos) to being two blue items; they left Landslides loot table to be one blue item and one green (the way Princess always was). Its currently incorrect for 1.12 on LH core where he drops a sole blue. They just need to add the green. They got Princess right for 1.12 as by that point she had been hotfixed to drop 2 blues.
2 Likes
The private server bashing is really lame. We all know some things are wrong. We all know there are mechanics that were based on educated guesses like Deep Breath because literally no one but Blizzard knows the truth. Itâs lame to bash them for doing the best they can with the information they have - some of them work extremely hard to make it as faithful as possible.
If you have examples of private server devs and players blatantly ignoring evidence, then by all means, provide a specific example. Iâm willing to bet that you were attacked for making annoying scarecrow arguments like what youâve done in this thread. I would attack you too because itâs infuriating to see you to make up an argument and use it trash the entire pserver scene.
2 Likes
Oh my god⌠ITS NOT PRIVATE SERVER BASHING! Stop taking acknowledgments of inaccuracies as bashing! Its not! Jesus Iâm collecting this information to literally submit it to the teams so the core can benefit from it!
Why the hell are you guys so defensive and jumpy any time someone says the exact same thing the actual developers of the core state themselves? Ill never understand that. You have any idea how many bugs and inaccuracies I have submitted to them over the years?
CmonâŚ
Edit: And yeah, we all know there are inaccuracies because the team themselves said so. I only bothered to post all that because someone, despite the team already saying it; asked me to provide examples. Otherwise I wouldnt have bothered.
I love the private server scene as far as Im concerned they are at least 50% of the reason we are getting classic. Donât really appreciate being made to look like I donât.
3 Likes
Well I didnât add the qualifier, I just meant âany of your original claimsâ but I thought we were talking about loot in this instance, but you posted scripting errors which is actually a better example. My misunderstanding on that one.
But THIS is the good stuff. This is what it means to back up your arguments and not sound like a complete tool when you make claims.
Respect for you sir, for providing actual evidence. Iâm also very happy to see Mara is not as easy on live as it is in LH. I remember doing Princess back in the day and she was hitting pretty damn hard. Same with Archaedes, but I never did him on private servers so I donât know if they got his damage right.
2 Likes
Props sir! I cant wait either. I agree its good to hear we are going to have bigger challenges too. I think we all want that.
1 Like
If you know anything about loot inaccuracies from dungeons that contain pre-raid BIS, please do tell. Pretty much BRD+
All Iâve been doing for the past 4 months is planning my moves in Classic, and the only resource I have is LH core. Itâs a bit discerning when you know there are things that are wrong about it.
For example I am pretty sure quest reputation values on LH are wrong, based on memory and a single statement made on allakhazam, but I canât get the actual values so I just have to use comparative percentages. Thatâs not very helpful at all lol.
3 Likes
Youâre not going to see the differences because Blizz isnât going to release the data tables for you (or anyone else) to compare them to the tables being used by the p-servers. Itâs just that simple. There is plenty of evidence around that can be used to demonstrate that pservers are not a 100% accurate reflection of actual vanilla in various ways. The pserver devs will tell you they guessed at stuff, how much more do you need before you admit that pservers arenât 100% accurate?
Pservers are what they are-a way to play something close to vanilla WoW instead of the putrid mess currently available from Blizzard-but they are not 100% vanilla WoW.
Another broad example. I never said theyâre 100% accurate.
Cipherr made a specific claim, I asked for evidence, and he provided it flawlessly. Itâs an example of how to make claims and not look dumb for it. Again, respect to Cipherr.
1 Like
at no time, have i ever seen a psever player be accurate in their claims.
i had a debate on these forums with an op who criticized the demo for being incorrect when it came to pet assist. claiming that in vanilla, pet AUTO assist was a thing and quickly got proven wrong. pet auto assist did NOT exist until BC.
i not only linked the BC patch note but also quoted it.
they SWORE that they were right, because of a psever they played on. they took the claim of a psever being vanilla accurate and told the very company who MADE the game- they.were.wrong.
this isnt a opps, you missed a texture. might want to fix that or helping blizzard root out problems, bugs and fixes. this is a poster who legit believed a psever over blizzard and told blizzard that the demo of their already released mmo, was WRONG- when it came to basic class function.
thats not including other opâs that continue to make such topics. or commenterâs who are criticizing actual vanilla players with dribble that never existed or happened.
another example is an op who made a topic asking if afk pet leveling would be in vanilla (classic). claiming that a mob untagged by the hunter but killed by the pet, would give them exp. then replied that this was something they remember happening IN BC. but this was NEVER a thing in vanilla.
1 Like