I’m tired of justifying it to people. I’ve been down this road a hundred times.
There isn’t any good reason for Necromancers to be like death knights or warlocks any more than any other class could be.
Pepino points out most of it. Especially now with Maldraxxus we have plenty of options to fill them out without stealing anything from either class and allowing them to fill the fantasy that has been the basis for the request since wow started.
I get that you think it is but it’s not. Otherwise people wouldn’t request it…
While I’d have the healing spec (Fleshcrafter) with a pet option I’d make it not needed for its healing abilities. More like how a Shadow Priest has its shadowfiend.
Have them use flesh crafting to stitch up and do blood infusions to allies with some cc abilities using the new spell looks from SLs.
I love this.
I’d have em with a stronger focus on crowd control options than most dps as well and have em use death nagic mixed with ice for some spells.
Because there’s a clear line of difference between Priests and Paladins that you and Pepino have yet to create for DKs and Necromancers.
The good reason for Necromancers to be like DKs is because they use Necromancy. The good reason for Necromancers to be like Warlocks is because many of the Necromancer’s abilities are already in the Warlock class like Life Tap, Drain Life, Soulstone, Healthstone, Curse of Agony, and Deathbolt.
If Blizzard did create a Necromancer class AT BEST we’re looking at a class that plays exactly like a Warlock with some DK abilities.
Claiming Necromancers as people want them are the same as Death Knights is exactly like claiming we don’t need Holy Priests because Holy Paladins exist.
Its a ridiculous argument that just because something uses the same power source or similar abilities that it shouldn’t be added.
If you want to pretend that everything has to be apples to apples, when we’re directly pointing out that it doesn’t need to be that way then you’re just not listening.
See still not listening to us.
You’re stuck on this idea that the Necromancer has to be like Death Knights or Warlocks.
It really absolutely doesn’t and isn’t what Pepino or I at least are asking for.
Regardless Warlock and Death Knight do not fit the mold of the class that most folk are requesting when they ask for Necromancers.
Again. You’re not listening and you’re very singular in your approach to Necromancers. You have one setup in your mind about them and you think that any similarity is somehow bad?
Warlocks, Hunters and DK’s already have pet mechanics. So do SPriest, Mages and Shaman if you get into the weeds of it though theirs tends to be temporary (Mostly).
I get you don’t want the class my dude and thats fine.
I still want it and I’m going to continue to request it until Blizzard implements it. (Also going to continue to look for Tinkerer and Bard and Warden as well.)
First and foremost, I’m talking about a class difference, you’re talking about a spec difference. There’s nothing wrong with similarities between specs, there is an issue with similarities between entire classes. And yes there needs to be a fundamental difference between Death Knights and Necromancers, because Blizzard has demonstrated in the past that when classes begin having too many of the same abilities, they begin to purge those abilities from one class and give it to another.
Most players want to avoid the metamorphosis situation for example, and a Necromancer class with abilities too similar to Warlocks and DKs would cause entire specs to be removed from those classes.
Why is it ridiculous to point out that the fundamental difference between Paladins and Priests is the use of Shadow magic and to ask for you to provide the same thing for DKs and Necromancers?
Okay, but then we’re falling into a realm of personal opinion and not objective fact. When you initially said that Death Knights are not Necromancers, you should have simply said that that is your personal opinion and we could have avoided this conversation altogether. I have no problem acknowledging that in your personal opinion DKs are not Necromancers, despite multiple facts showing otherwise.
Most of the classes functionally do something similar or the same as another class. We have three types of class with slight differentiation of ranged or melee.
DPS Healer and Tank. Then Ranged or Melee or not. You could throw in pet classes there too but fundamentally thats included in half of them.
More variety of the design and use of those classes is never a bad thing. Neither is added role play opportunities. Since this is an RPG…
There isn’t any reason that Necromancer needs to take anything from Warlocks or Death Knights.
Thats not what we’re asking for and if you’d listen to our words you’d know that.
Because it isn’t important at all in what we’re talking about.
It is fact that Death Knights are not Necromancers. They do use necromancy to do their magics, but they’re Death Knights.
Necromancers use necromancy to do their magics but are not Death Knights.
We could have avoided this conversation altogether if you’d stayed to what the threads about and not bothered to argue nonsenselessly and uselessly.
OP just asked what classes people wanted, you deciding to argue with someone is on you.
Again we’re clearly not talking about the same thing here. I’m talking about a thematic similarity to the point where abilities are shared and general concepts are the same. You seem to be talking about mechanical similarities (i.e. Firebolt and Shadowbolt both being straight firing spells that hit single targets). Simply because both Paladins and Warriors for example wear plate armor and swing 2H swords doesn’t place it in the same situation as a Necromancer fundamentally doing the same thing as a Warlock or a DK.
Which is an incredibly untrue statement. At the fundamental level Necromancers raise undead minions and control them. We already have a class that does the exact same thing via Raise Dead, which ironically came from the Necromancer in WC3.
Since Blizzard has a history of not wanting classes to share abilities (metamorphosis being a prime example, and the Warlock version isn’t even anything like the DH version), please explain how Death Knights can keep Raise Dead with a Necromancer class in the game that would also require Raise Dead.
Uh yes it is. The differences between classes is actually the very core of what we’re talking about.
Okay, so we’re now back to the question I asked you from the beginning; What makes a Necromancer a Necromancer?
The fact of the matter is that a Necromancer is one who uses Necromancy, but please I’m interested in hearing your definition.
Phylactery, a self rez as I previously mentioned, more so a defensive cooldown, a safeguard you may say, has its uses in all content, PvE Soaking mechanics, M+ when you get a nasty dot or know doom is coming, pvp too, when self rezed come back with 20% - 40% hp at the location of the Phylactery, so gives counter plays in PvP. Can have a 10-15 min cooldown for balance purposes.
Big Edits: Literally the only class with a self rez is Shamans reincarnation, far from DK and Warlocks. Or we can go off the abilities they use in game aswell Spectral Bolt, Dark Ritual, necrotic bolt, siphon essence, boneflay, final bargain, bonemend, clinging darkness, shadow well, grim fate, decaying touch, bone spike, awaken darkness … I literally can keep going theirs still so much more and I havnt even gone into the death rifts and death named abilities and frost and shadowfrost… or even begin to go through Lich abilities.
So far none that DK and Warlocks have…please let me know which abilities are taken from DKs and Warlocks.
Outside of similar schools of magic, which many classes overlap already, and potentially a new pet class which really it doesn’t have to be with the amount of unique abilities they already have, but most likely will be, which realistically you could say “ohh no hunters have pets”.
I quite frankly am hoping for a new class to be honest. A new proffession would be interesting as well. We got archeology as a new secondary in cataclysm, so it would be cool to see a new primary or secondary proffession in the future.
Adding classic wow 1-60 overworld for chromie time would be cool also.
Uh, you never heard of Soulstone? Just like Phylacteries, Soulstones store the soul of a target and when they die, they can self rez. Warlocks can even cast it on themselves. So no, Shaman aren’t the only class with a self rez, Warlocks can do it as well.
As for the rest of your abilities, I’m going to need you to tell me exactly what these abilities do.
In what world does a warlock SS themselves, and this is coming from a Warlock main, and SS is disabled in PvP Arena too even in raid situations outside of SSing a healer you can never cast it on yourself and used as a battle rez, M+ it goes on other members aswell and used a battle rez… so no… like I said it’s more like Shamans Reincarnation.
Phylactery is a combination of I’d say Alter Time and Reincarnation, while alter time takes you back to the cast position although resets your hp so not technically the same and reincarnation as it’s a rez that won’t use a Brez…. UNLIKE SOULSTONES that use a battle rez… I’m surprised I had to explain that to you . So let the Warlocks and DKs have a battle rez… this isn’t one.
You can keep arguing trying to knit pick, but no… theirs no similarities outside of a possible pet…”oh no like hunters” haha
Solo leveling and questing, which is still a major component of the game for many players.
The point is that Warlocks do have the ability to self rez, and it’s actually better than the Shaman version because they can grant that ability to others. Further, it’s a phylactery ability because it stores souls, just like a phylactery would.
I find it hilarious that you say I’m nit-picking when you’re pretending a major Warlock ability doesn’t exist because a Warlock would use it on others in group situations, or because it’s disabled in PvP.
Due to the level squish, players don’t even have to play through Legion content, which means that a new class would probably just bypass the class hall stuff entirely and go straight into questing.
If they even decide to play through Legion in the first place.
. So let the Warlocks and DKs have a battle rez… this isn’t one.