New Anduin Cinematic

Yeah. Interesting vs. boring “we are bad mothers” tropes.

We are talking about Horde characters.

The Jailor serves no one but his own interests. So firmly chaotic evil.

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I think maybe some people need to re-tune their sarcasm detectors.

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Indeed they do lol

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Well, some would need have a sense of humour first to detect sarcasm :wolf: :stuck_out_tongue:

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What is this sense of humor you speak of? Is it a mythic drop? :joy::rofl:

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Yes. .002% drop rate and you cant use a raid token to get a second chance either :wolf: :stuck_out_tongue:

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https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LawfulEvil

I would say Zovaal is more a Type-2 Lawful Evil Villain who upholds his idea of Law for the sake of his own sadism!

I don’t think you quite understand the nuanced distinctions. It doesn’t matter if you hold to a set of set of standards if your only standards are you’re own then your ethos is Chaotic. Zoval has upturned the table and rejected the rules he once lived by. His motivations are entirely self-derived and self-centered.

He’s actually about imposing a set of standards on the entire cosmos which he believes are the right ones. According to him the current standards are broken and need to be fixed.

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Said standards being that Everyone is Guilty and must be Tortured in Servitude.

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Trying to argue over alignments is folly, especially if you’re trying to 1:1 map it onto a character’s personality.

As someone who’s DMed for over three decades, I’m going to take my call over a publicly edited article on a Wiki especially from a Flanderised take on alignments.

When his standards are… EVERYONE DIES… that just might be a bit broken?

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It probably didn’t help that the introduction of the Knights of the Ebon Blade in Wrath gave us those afflicted, sympathetic, heroic undead doing their best while also making the Forsaken more Scourge-like with the Wrathgate. Don’t get me wrong, I love both the Ebon Blade and the Forsaken, but Darion founded the Ebon Blade as knightly order that follows his own moral principles, and he’s pretty committed to taking whatever option he thinks will save the most lives and perpetuate the least amount of evil, without much regard for personal gain or ambition or safety. He’s a squeaky-clean paragon of optimism and selflessness compared to the Banshee Queen, and that bled over into the differences between the Ebon Blade and the Forsaken, because we can’t possibly have the two biggest groups of free-willed undead finding common ground on their shared goals. They even come into direct conflict immediately after Wrath in Cataclysm, with Koltira’s story at Andorhal.

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That is the weird thing though, Death is a Law Realm, just as Order and the Light are. Life, Void, and Disorder are the Chaoic Realms. What would a member of the pantheon of Death be doing acting chaotic?

I see him as lawful in the sense that he sees himself and his end goals as the law. Some of his lines give the Impression that Zovaal sees himself as Death itself, and he has been unlawfully chained as a result.

Dausegne, the Fallen Oracle – Dominated by the Jailer, Dausegne leads the Mawsworn in a battle to gain control of the Forge of Afterlives. The Jailer plans to use its power to unleash an eternity of torment upon all of reality.

Clearly he doesn’t want simple oblivion as much as getting rid of all other Cosmic Forces while sending all Mortal Souls to the Maw(to be divided into Shades to be turned into Mawsworn) leaving only the Shadowlands where he torments everyone as the eternal Hanging Judge.

A simple way to have common ground between the Forsaken and the Ebon Blade, while still allowing for latter conflict is disagreement over neutrality. The Ebon Blade don’t want to go Alliance or Horde, while the Forsaken want them to go Horde. In fact, it would’ve been a better story if the Forsaken AND the Ebon Blade bonded… then Sylvanas strained that with what she did to Kolitra.

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