New Anduin Cinematic

That game gives me nightmares. :smiley:

This is my second long thread. More pleasant than the last one, though, thankfully.

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I’m talking about what would have made the last expansion work as it should have

Context to your Erriden quote that Erriden was responding to:

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Token Horde character. They ignore the Horde in non-faction stories, but they need to stick a Horde character in here and there to pretend otherwise.

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We already had sylvanas in this cinematic. Why doesn’t she count?

Sylvannas does not have the connection that Saurfang and Varian share.

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Blizzard isn’t really treating Sylvanas like a Horde character in general any more at all.

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In my opinion, the cinematic is fine as far as it goes. However, at the moment, it lives in the shadow of what is to come - namely the judgement of Sylvanas.

I look at it this way:

  • Nobody (including Arthas or Sylvanas) is supposed to go straight to the Maw - based on the folks that we found in Revendreth, it seems clear that everyone is supposed to get at least a shot at atonement in Revendreth;

  • Sylvanas (and technically Uther, but I assume that the game will mostly ignore this) condemned souls directly to the Maw;

  • Those souls were tortured by the Jailer, and some unspecified number were utterly destroyed (Amalgam of Night Elf souls that gets blown up Torghast);

  • As such Sylvanas (and Uther) violated the rules of the Afterlife in what, in my opinion, is a pretty horrific way;

In my opinion, this leaves us in a situation where Sylvanas (and Uther - but the game will ignore him because he’s a bit player at this point) deserves some measure of punishment for their actions. However, condemning them to be tortured in the Maw doesn’t cut it as a punishment because, as noted in point 1 above, nobody deserves to go directly to the Maw without a shot at atonement. By the same token, simply sending Sylvanas to go search for Nathanos doesn’t cut it either because it involves no element of atonement for her actions.

In my opinion, the outcome that is most consistent with what the story has told us thus far is that Sylvanas is condemned to search the Maw to rescue the souls which she sent unjustly to the Maw and return them for proper assignment to the appropriate afterlife.

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Sylvanas has never felt belonging in the Horde because she reflected the Old Horde’s legacy. Her BQ persona was compaired to Blackhand. Her change in demeanor aligns her more with Thrall’s modern Horde core values.

aka, she’s more Horde now than she ever was.

I don’t think Blackhand is a good comparison. She seems more like Gul’dan to me.

He was directly aligned with Kil’jaden & Sargeras just like Sylvanas was directly aligned with The Jailer.

He created the initial Death Knights while she created the Undead Night Elves.

He leaves the Horde to face the Alliance while chasing personal power in the Tomb of Sargeras while she leaves the Horde to face N’Zoth while chasing personal power in destroying the Lich King’s Helm. (She succeeds where Gul’dan fails with the Horde succeeding Against N’Zoth where it failed against the Alliance after Gul’Dan skips out).

AU Gul’dan and Sylvanas were both X.1 final raid bosses.

She even fits his role in the overall plot:

It also seems like the Soul Shard being a “Saved Copy” of Sylvanas from her death could fit just as well as AU Gul’dan being a saved copy of the Original Gul’dan. If I am getting what they are trying with the Soul Shards not being a Good Version/Bad Version then it almost feels like the Soul Shard is seeing the Character’s actions at the end of a book and trying to understand them without having read the book (lived the experiences).

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Remember when the classic forsaken opening had them sound like they and Sylvanas where going to betray the horde? Good times that

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Thrall doesn’t want the Horde to be his any more. Probably all the more reason Blizzard brought up Saurfang again to represent honor.

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They should have, Forsaken third faction should have existed when they introduced Death Knights. The Ebon Blade are kind of a faction neutral third party already.

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Well all the forsaken story seemed geared up for a betrayal

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Technically, they did at the Wrathgate. That should have when they naturally broke away.

I’m having a hard time reconciling the old Forsaken who were struggling with being monsters, with the new forsaken from Before the Storm who are just sad undead babies who need constant reassurance to function. Surely there must be a middle ground.

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I think the Vanilla Forsaken were the middle ground between BtS’s “sad undead babies” and Cataclysm’s “we’re just the Scourge now MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!” Forsaken.

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Sylvanas is no longer involved with the Horde and isn’t present as part of the Horde story. She abandoned the Horde and the Horde rejected her. They even retconned her as having never really worked for the Horde.

There was a tug of war over the nature of the Forsaken since before Vanilla even released. Metzen wanted an afflicted, but sympathetic and heroic people doing the best they could with the cards they were dealt. His team wanted Scourge 2.0, as that’s more heavy metal rock and roll.

The tug between those polar inverses is why they (and to an extent Sylvanas herself) have sort of felt erratic.

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I agree that the treatment of Arthas was, IMO, atrocious.

Being consigned to oblivion is, IMO, horrible. But Blizzard seem OK with character going into oblivion. Some of the souls you deal with regard it as a relief. I think Saurfangs destruction was considered a “Unyielding to the end” king of noble end.

I didn’t take, from the cinematic that Sylvanas destroyed him. There was nothing significant left of him and he was fading out on his own. Now he was denied a chance at redemption, but that is all on Arthas (though Blizzard is giving him a total pass on that).