I’d like this to be constructive and hopefully informative for the Devs in their design changes and balancing. When a Talent/Ability gets a 30-50% nerf that just says to me, the player. Don’t use this anymore and pick something else. (which I thought the Talent trees were here for player agency)
However when the Devs nerf something by 50% we just drop that talent and pick the one they didn’t nerf. So are the Devs doing this intentionally so we don’t use those abilities?
There have been more 30-60% nerfs than I ever seen and players are now compelled to drop that build/talents or just reroll. What they were playing just isn’t fun or worth it anymore.
I’m not going to compose a list for each Class/Spec but I’m sure people can list examples below that after a balance change comes through for 50% you just either drop that Talent or Reroll another Class.
For me personally the 50% nerf too booming voice just says. Hey don’t use that anymore. I can just play something else to get back to what feels good again. Then you nerf that and thus the cycle continues. Then if no options are left we Quit.
My question is why are the Devs doing this? There is a MEME called fun detected but it’s true and hope that we can put an end to this happening. Why not Buff at the same times as doing small nerfs?
- If a talent or ability is overtuned. Nerf it by 10% and buff something else by 10% to make “MORE OPTIONS” for fun viable.
I just think the Devs are on a warpath to kill any enjoyment for the players in this expansion before it even gets started. I know many that have Quit already cause they tell me Blizz hasn’t changed. They don’t want you to have fun. It’s hard to argue against this point when the Devs actions consistently meet up with “Fun detected” lets nerf it too oblivion so they don’t use it anymore.
Think most players are very pessimistic now (is my fun build on the chopping block next) and Blizz said they will listen but if they are…then why are they trying so hard to ruin any possible fun? You just create a player base where everyone is miserable and they play other games that aren’t like this.
It would be great to start seeing a lot of patch notes with consistent buffs coming up and many of the nerfs reverted (some). Let players have talent options and fun. No more 30-50% nerfs it’s just uncalled for. No one benefits it’s just dragging the happy players down to where the miserable ones are at. When we should be buffing Classes up instead so everyone can have a chance at fun.
I think the devs are simply doing the best they can to follow directions from their leaders with inadequate tools to actually do that job quickly and accurately. They have tools to see which classes are performing “higher than intended” but they don’t seem to have good tools to understand how to adjust performance without adversely impacting other aspects of the player’s toolkit.
It’s easy if a single talent accounts for 100% of the excess damage that the devs have been told to bring in line with other classes–just nerf that one talent. However, if that talent has interactions with one or more other talents, then nerfing talent X may also inadvertently nerf talents Y and Z, which significantly complicates the devs’ job.
There are ways to develop statistical models through design of experiments / machine learning that would allow them to understand all the complex interactions they’ve created with beast that is the new talent trees, but they don’t seem to have any data scientists on the team. Tools like JMP, Minitab, and R can even optimize for multiple goals once such a model is built–imagine collecting your data, running it through the model, and having it tell you how much to adjust all the talent coefficients to achieve your goals with the push of a single button?
Instead they poke and prod in the dark with seemingly little insight into how to make the monstrous beast they have created behave the way they want and we end up with multiple “tuning passes” that feel like “fun detected, nerf incoming” to us.
“We’d rather you not play X” - Blizzard
That’s what massive nerfs say to us in a nutshell. So we stop using that talent/ability after the nerfs and try to circumvent their nerfs with another talent/ability to find fun again. It’s a vicious cycle. It only ends in a game that isn’t very much fun and less players.
It’s not about what the Devs want. The Devs job is to design something fun then get out of the players way. The players are supposed to show the Devs how to play the game they designed. That is “IF” the Devs want player agency and to enjoy their design.
The Devs should NEVER be telling us this is how you play the game. Which is likely the core problem with the overall design philosophy at Blizz.
They have literally said that before. To Demo locks. So I wouldn’t be shocked to see them take that stance again. Fast tanking = more fun for tanks = more tanks = faster group forming and runs = faster progression = less time played per reward.
Whine thread about prot warrior pvp nerfs and nothing more.
I’ve been told to just stick through it and don’t worry since “nerfs only effect the high end content”
Then I remembered enhance healing getting nerfed to the ground in legion throughout bfa and having an absolutely terrible time in open world and pvp content as I just kept dying and having no fun being a melee with no survivability or escapes.
Damage nerfs are one thing but survivability nerfs 100% make the class less fun to the point of not wanting to play.
I agree OP, tanks do need another 50% nerf.
Really? It says to me this talent was over-performing compared to others so it was brought back in line. Then I do some research (if it is a class and/or specialization I play) to see the actual effects of the tuning then reevaluate my initial reaction.
It’d be wonderful if it was that way, but the devs are subservient to the game leads and the game director, who are in turn subservient to the Blizz president and ATVI executives. Statements like the following makes it very clear that they have “intended power advancement curves” and if players are observed to be ahead of the intended design curve, they will implement nerfs (or more rarely buffs) to remedy that.
If it’s overperforming then nerf it by 10% and buff something else by 10% to bring it in line. That is how you balance.
If you nerf something by 50% effectiveness you should just go ahead and remove it from the game instead. Cause after that type of decimation to a talent we just aren’t going to use it anymore and use something else.
This is the cycle and it’s a bad one. It doesn’t have to be this way and only leads to less people playing the game because it’s not fun. Destroying builds is a bad approach. Period.
So if one talent is increasing damage per second by 100% and another by 50%, you would rather Blizzard makes it so the first talent now increases DPS by 90% and the second by 60% instead of both increasing DPS by 50%?
yeah everyone is on the hate train against prot warriors and tanks in general right now
but when it’s their class’s turn to get nerfed they will be screaming bloody murder
it’s almost like all these people that praise nerfs want everyone to quit playing the game
I just use the nerfed stuff more out of spite
That is not how you balance. If something needs to be brought down in line with the rest of the pack, it needs to be nerfed. Nerfing one thing just to buff another will leave the outlier overtuned. Just let the video game makers do their jobs and you go back to being a stain on PVP.
Seriously, then need to removed tanks from PVP entirely.
My Protection Warrior alternate character, as well as my guild’s two Guardian Druids, are on the “hate train” against Protection Warriors and tanks in general.
When they have to nerf something that is overperforming by 50%, you know that you are still in BETA, they should let people play for free until they get things together. You not only test things for them but waste time and money on something they can destroy in a single patch notes every week.
The Devs set the rules, rules tell you how to play the game.