Ret pally triggered even more?
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Ill say it here too.
People whining about grounding totem dont know what rank 1 spells are.
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They are NOT going to nerf Shamans and make a fair playing ground.
Time to take another couple years off. who knows I may be back. Next time I’ll roll horde. It will be several years before I give this game another try.
I’m ok with limiting shamans to 2 if it means also limiting boomkins, priests and hunters to 2 as well. I’d rather face a shaman comp than priest/spriest/boomkin spam imo.
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I dont have a dog in the fight. I play a shaman and paladin, and plan to play cata.
You missed something in the process it seems.
- Shaman can dispel poison and disease or they can use a totem to remove either a poison or a disease every 5 seconds for 2 min for 5 players in 20 yards range.
And Shaman can use purge to dispel 2 enemy buffs. - Priest has a dispel magic to remove 2 magic debuffs on a friendly target or 2 magric buffs on enemy target. Priest can remove 1 disease every 5 sec for 20 sec.
- Druid has a curse dispel and can remove 1 poison every 2 sec for 8 sec.
Now, can Paladin use cleanse to remove 1 poison, 1 disease, and 1 magic effect at the same time? Yes because there is no totem or abolish xx for Paladin.
Another thing have you seen how many dots/magical debuffs there are in the game and how many can be applied in pvp?
Try to track them down and count how many “cleanses” and how much mana it would require to remove them completely.
Finally how many players have you fought until now who reapplied their magic buffs in the middle of a fight after being dispelled 2-3 times in a row?
How many priest have you seen reapplied PW:F after being dispelled in the middle of a fight?
How many druids have you seen reapplied MotW or Thorns?
How many mages have you seen reapplied Frost Armor or Arcane Intellect?
How many warlock have you seen reapplied Demon Armor?
Etc…
Why do you think they do not reapply most of the time? Because of gcd? Mostly but not only.
Buffs are expensive for example it costs 800 mana for my warlock lvl 41 to apply demon armor.
Let’s talk about purely hypothetically, imagine a paladin with the ability to dispel your imbues or make your 4 totems disappear every 1.5 seconds, for a tenth of what you spend in mana to apply/summon them. What would you think? Wouldn’t you be frustrated or upset?
In a fight A vs H, who do you think will have an advantage? Alliance stripped of all buffs or Horde?
Purge is the counter of every magical buff there is no exception.
Paladin is the class that is affected the most because even its offensive toolkit is magic buff but the other caster/hybrid classes are affected too.
I’d like you to explain to me how as a melee you manage to prevent a shaman from stacking 5 MSW.
Unstable Affliction counters magic dispel because it prevents the dot gameplay from being completely neutralized.
What counters purge?
Just because it existed in the past doesn’t mean the design was healthy for the game. I can take the example of the dk’s necrotic strike at the beginning of wotlk that completely annihilated the druid heal.
Did it last?
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for as much complaining as I’ve seen you do about ret and exorcism specifically, you’re either disingenuous or just ignorant, even in phase 1 we didn’t get to use tremor totem rune because it’s the same slot as avenger’s shield AND more importantly to the subsequent phases, Exorcist, the rune that allows us to use exorcism on more than just undead targets and has been the entire development focus of our class since art of war in phase 2
Get ready for “A skirmish has broken out”. Alliance barely bg’s now and most of the hard core Pvper’s have left game when they nerfed down ab and wsg exalted. You will see a drastic drop in alliance bg’s and if they do go, it will only be to AV.
Correct because it is designed to counter your class and it works as intended. I just said it before, it is the main tool to counter the paladin toolkit. Against the other classes removing things such as arcane intellect or fortitude is not something that is prevents them from doing what they do in most senses. Again paladins feel the worst against purge because your seals are magical effects for some reason.
The way you you can prevent a shaman from generating MSW stacks as a paladin specifically is to switch your usage of repentance and bubble. Use repentance defensively to give yourself time to heal and regenerate shorter cds then use bubble offensively. We cannot generate stacks of we can’t hurt you and if you open back up on us in melee after repent you get to beat on us for free essentially. The other melees have different tools to prevent themselves from being hurt by MSW too badly such as rogues with evasion and heavy cc or warriors with mortal strike actually being very strong against shamans.
Not everything in the game has a counter. Whats the counter to bubble? Paladins these days walk up to cap points and hitting bubble then just get a free cap with 0 possible way of stopping them. Also half the classes are basically competely unaffected by purge.
Currently hunters have a deadzone where you can remain outside of their melee range and still be too close to hit with ranged. Apparently the devs are ok with some of the older mechanics still existing. The main way to counter paladins still seems to be dispelling or kiting.
Shamans have had a slight advantage over casters and magic users meanwhile Paladins have had a slight advantage over melee due to their very good defensive abilities that allow you to prolong fights.
We both still get murdered by a good ranged hunter or Xaryu prodigy mage.
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Take away Shaman’s ability to debuff. Priests can debuff. One faction should not have TWO classes that can do it. This was okay in TBC when both factions could do it. Now it makes PVP completely unfair.
Thats a damn lie. Alliance never have healers. Maybe in a premade but not with randoms.
It has nothing to do with the fact that it’s intended to counter the paladin completely. Blizzard changed the Paladin’s gameplay 2 weeks before the release in 2004. The devs didn’t do extensive testing on the changes they had made for the class. Kevin Jordan himself admitted many years later that he messed up with the Paladin’s design at the time.
Why do you think they added UA in TBC?
To prevent Affliction lock to be useless against defensive magic dispels.
Why do you think they made the seal system undispellable in the later expansions?
To prevent Paladin from being useless against priest/shaman.
If it was so simple people wouldn’t struggle against SoD shaman.
Walking away?
Ah the myth of the Paladin who can do anything under divine shield, it’s been a long time.
You can’t cap a point with divine shield on you.
Instead of spreading false informations you should play a paladin, it could help you.
And yet there is still scatter shot (MM talent) / freezing trap (thanks trap launcher rune) / Intimidation (BM talent) / Cat like reflexes rune + aspect of the Monkey (35 to 40% dodge).
Not bad to move away from a sticky target.
There is a shift in balance since P2 in favor of shaman.
Unfortunately.
What can be done with shaman is what they are doing with hunter. Take the dual wield enhance machine and spread its power into the 2 hand enhance machine. You fix 2 problems here. You make 2 hand viable which keeps the shaman power still at tops of meters based on RNG procs of WF. Thus making it less reliable burst that allows other classes to compete but when it does proc moves it to top 3.
With the Dual you keep it as reliable and controlled burst. This is the spec that allows for maxim control and min maxing. A well played Dual enhance can stay with the RNG of the 2 hand but never rely on procs. Not much need to be said about DW its the main abuser of the shaman runes and even a slight damage nerf to any Rune that DW uses will garbage can the other spec even more. This in turn force DW to be the only playable spec with variance in Runes to be used just straight cookie cutter.
If this isn’t enough we can also spread more damage to Elemental. Elemental is suffering due to Runes being either tank or melee with very little in its tree to actually improve its scaling at higher levels.
The las alternative and my least favorite but easier to implement, is bring classic Hit cap back to SoD. Additionally, this will succeed in lowering overall damage via miss hits, and glancing. Moreover, dps has to choose between crit, or hit. Which goes back to the top paragraph of a more miss big hits, more hits consistent damage.
In conclusion SoD is to far in its phase for any major overhaul and the testing of small changes has a huge impact in overall gameplay. I am afraid that these changes to shaman will scare future Dev changes to the class. The fear of making it OP because of small tweaks. In retrospect they should have cater the runes away from DW and more into 2 hand.
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I’m good with a Shaman nerf when they put in a counter to Divine Shield.
counter Divine Shield slows the paladin by 50%? something like this?
This is a well written post. Any form of shaman overhaul is pretty much off the table I’d bet. Truthfully the only solution I see blizz ever doing is letting sham keep their utility but nerfing their damage just slightly
They should take away Shaman’s Offensive dispel or just put Shaman’s on Alliance. And nerf damage at least 50%. And do away with the unlimited mana regen.
Shaman’s were not a problem during the 50% damage reduction. None at all. I was winning 60% as alliance on all BG’s. Healers were coming back to the game. Now, I’ve qued and I’m the only healer. On 2 games I was left solo at st and saw 4 or 5 Horde incoming, both games. I just quickly afked out. With no plans of EVER returning now. I’m past the point of no return.
Blizzard is going to do nothing.
The fact that purge costs like 300 mana so spamming it will oom the shaman. Therefore mana burn effects counter purge. Oom shamans cant purge.
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“you can prevent MSW stacks once every 5 mins”
MSW is like 30 seconds by the way, repentance is 6 second incap, bubble is 12 for a total of 18 seconds in your scenario. if you can’t find someone else to hit during the 12 second bubble duration, sounds like you’re the actual target dummy
Yup change to dispersion, with a low cd. Bubble with 5 min. D is so overrated.